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Tim Pat Coogan



seamusin

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Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
21
more reliable than 98% of authors who tackle similar subjects to him these days. thats probably the best way to describe it.
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
49
He`s pretty good, Cal Michael, but, like Every historian you have to watch what he writes. He certainly wears his heart on his sleeve. He could have a tattoo with Collins good, Dev bad written on it.
 

Gary Carter

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Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3
cal michael said:
Is he a reliable source from which one could educate themselves?
As he presided over the demise of the Irish Press I wouldn't exactly call him "reliable".
 

Conuil

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Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
59
cal michael said:
Is he a reliable source from which one could educate themselves?
My annswer is yes;

However, U should always read between the lines.... :roll:
 

Sidewinder

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Joined
Oct 23, 2004
Messages
442
cal michael said:
Can you elaborate a little?
Pull up a chair and get yerself a cup of tea, this is going to take a while....

Revisionism. Who wants to start? I'm off to bed meself after working all night, but this thread should be fun...
 

Podolski

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Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Messages
104
You will notice that the more green-tinged nationalists like Tim Pat more than others. As for being a counterfoil to the revisionists he was more like a mirror in his own revisionism to people like Ruth Dudley Edwards and Peter Hart. My advice is that you should regard every writer as having some agenda but some have it moreso than others. Try and read every perspective and form your own opinion.
 

Catalpa

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Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,303
cal michael said:
Catalpa said:
At least he has been a counterfoil to the Revisionists over the years when such were few and far between.
Can you elaborate a little?
He didn't exactly shallow whole the concept that the Irish revolutionaries over the years were a bunch of ungrateful wretches who were blind to the benefits being within the bosom of the wonderful British Empire.
 

slapbangwhallop

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Jun 18, 2007
Messages
4
anmajornarthainig said:
He`s pretty good, Cal Michael, but, like Every historian you have to watch what he writes. He certainly wears his heart on his sleeve. He could have a tattoo with Collins good, Dev bad written on it.
fair point, but more intelligent, analysed, better researched and methodical you would be hard pressed to find than Coogan's works
 

Pat_Corkery

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Nov 8, 2006
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35
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Is he a reliable source from which one could educate themselves?
If one was to read his Eamon de Valera book alone they would say no, his book on 20th Century Ireland is also very flawed. It is riddled with mistakes one which comes to mind is, he claims Ian Paisley threw snow balls at Lemass' car. It was in fact Jack Lynch's car he threw them at. He also at points in the same book makes minor apologies for his errors in the de Valera book. The end point he is a journalist and at that was a good one, as a historical source I would not rate him in any shape or form.
 

Boss Croker

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Feb 18, 2005
Messages
358
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www.shergar.com
cal michael said:
Is he a reliable source from which one could educate themselves?
Not really. Gets his facts wrong frequently ... also incorrect dates, names and spellings. Very blind spot on Gaelic culture and the Irish language. Let's his anti-Dev, pro-Collins bias infect everything he writes.

Plus his level of writing, grammar, proofing, referencing and indexing is poor.

But, then, briseann an dúchas trí shúile an chait ... He is, after all, the son of a Blueshirt Commissioner of the Garda Síochána...

I'll never figure out how he got to be editor of the 'Press'. But he certainly revenged himself on Dev by ****ing it up completely.

Eoin Neeson is a far better guide through the period 1916 - 23.
 

Catalpa

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Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,303
Boss Croker said:
[quote="cal michael":2azfj0tq]Is he a reliable source from which one could educate themselves?
Not really. Gets his facts wrong frequently ... also incorrect dates, names and spellings. Very blind spot on Gaelic culture and the Irish language. Let's his anti-Dev, pro-Collins bias infect everything he writes.

Plus his level of writing, grammar, proofing, referencing and indexing is poor.

But, then, briseann an dúchas trí shúile an chait ... He is, after all, the son of a Blueshirt Commissioner of the Garda Síochána...

I'll never figure out how he got to be editor of the 'Press'. But he certainly revenged himself on Dev by ****ing it up completely.

Eoin Neeson is a far better guide through the period 1916 - 23.[/quote:2azfj0tq]

He is, after all, the son of a Blueshirt Commissioner of the Garda Síochána...

Deputy Commissioner Coogan was not a member of the Blueshirts.
 

BuachaillBeo

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
66
Boss Croker said:
Eoin Neeson is a far better guide through the period 1916 - 23.
Neeson's book on the Civil War is some achievement, it's very detailed and is some of the most objective writing i've come across from a historian.

With regards to Tim Pat Coogan, i think the statement above about him being more reliable than 98% of the others is probably the best way to put it, once you know his own opinions when you're reading his work then it's not a bad experience (as with most/nearly all other historical writers), he's a decent writer and i would consider him a solid historian as well.
 

M R-Foynes

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Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
9
Website
www.orangenet.org
Hardly a reliable source coming from the family he does.
 

Just Jack

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Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
3,792
Sad to hear that he's having problems with his sight.

One of the few decent historians Ireland has produced.
 

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