Time for PIG to grow a pair???

jane5

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Is it time for Ireland, Portugal and Greece to come together, and collectively demand rates of 2-3% from the ECB?

If all three countries banded together and threatened default or financial aid at REALISTIC rates that will not cripple them for generations to come, and flexible budgets for the next few years to get things under control rather than precipitate a deflationary spiral and depression, they would be a force to be reckoned with.

The situation with Ireland and Portugal is already threatening the Euro. Default by either would be a mess. Simultaneous default by both would be a catastrophe. The ball is in our court.

Considering the country is in a mess due to transferring private sector debt to the taxpayers, and hence paying back German and French bondholders and etc etc, we have little to lose, while the Germans have a huge amount to lose.

This should be considered. It's this, default anyway, or the IMF. I know which I'd try first.
 


selkies

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Is it time for Ireland, Portugal and Greece to come together, and collectively demand rates of 2-3% from the ECB?

If all three countries banded together and threatened default or financial aid at REALISTIC rates that will not cripple them for generations to come, and flexible budgets for the next few years to get things under control rather than precipitate a deflationary spiral and depression, they would be a force to be reckoned with.

The situation with Ireland and Portugal is already threatening the Euro. Default by either would be a mess. Simultaneous default by both would be a catastrophe. The ball is in our court.

Considering the country is in a mess due to transferring private sector debt to the taxpayers, and hence paying back German and French bondholders and etc etc, we have little to lose, while the Germans have a huge amount to lose.

This should be considered. It's this, default anyway, or the IMF. I know which I'd try first.
I imagine if there was some way to weasel out of paying debt FF would have come up with something.
 

seanmacc

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We could default out of pure selfishness. A massive default would send the value of the Euro crashing solving a lot of problems for our exporters and stimulating demand for domestic products.
 

Machdaddy

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I imagine if there was some way to weasel out of paying debt FF would have come up with something.
They cant even tie their own shoelaces.I wouldnt be so sure.The euro will collapse if even one country pulls out.it would be catastrophic but may well happen.get ollie back over here and negotiate a longer period.we're gonna have to be bailed out anyway at this stage thats the problem though.
 

wellfkmepink

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Is it time for Ireland, Portugal and Greece to come together, and collectively demand rates of 2-3% from the ECB?

If all three countries banded together and threatened default or financial aid at REALISTIC rates that will not cripple them for generations to come, and flexible budgets for the next few years to get things under control rather than precipitate a deflationary spiral and depression, they would be a force to be reckoned with.

The situation with Ireland and Portugal is already threatening the Euro. Default by either would be a mess. Simultaneous default by both would be a catastrophe. The ball is in our court.

Considering the country is in a mess due to transferring private sector debt to the taxpayers, and hence paying back German and French bondholders and etc etc, we have little to lose, while the Germans have a huge amount to lose.

This should be considered. It's this, default anyway, or the IMF. I know which I'd try first.
Moral hazard issues would be the first thing that springs to mind.

The other issue being I'm not sure Germany would be particularly bothered about losing any of the three from the euro and feck any of the countries that tried this out of the euro and maybe the EU
 

seanmacc

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Moral hazard issues would be the first thing that springs to mind.

The other issue being I'm not sure Germany would be particularly bothered about losing any of the three from the euro and feck any of the countries that tried this out of the euro and maybe the EU
Germany needs a high value currency because of the large amount of raw materials they import for their large industrial base. A collapsing Euro value fecks them right up.
 

selkies

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We could default out of pure selfishness. A massive default would send the value of the Euro crashing solving a lot of problems for our exporters and stimulating demand for domestic products.
So what you are saying is that FF are thinking of the consequences and deciding against a rash course of action?
 

selkies

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They cant even tie their own shoelaces.I wouldnt be so sure.The euro will collapse if even one country pulls out.it would be catastrophic but may well happen.get ollie back over here and negotiate a longer period.we're gonna have to be bailed out anyway at this stage thats the problem though.
They have been in power for a very long time in Ireland, they clearly know how to tie shoe laces, they have been doing it for the Irish people for so long most of us are worried that if they went out of government we'd have to do it ourselves.
 

wellfkmepink

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Germany needs a high value currency because of the large amount of raw materials they import for their large industrial base. A collapsing Euro value fecks them right up.
And these three countries are currently a source of weakness for the euro.
There is no reason to believe that they will be anything other than a weakness for some time, and as pointed out above they are incentivised to look for a weaker euro.
 

seanmacc

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So what you are saying is that FF are thinking of the consequences and deciding against a rash course of action?
Possibly.

Its quite clear at the moment that FF don't know what to do. The one thing that they are refusing to do is upset our European overlords.

I don't think FF realise that Europe (Germany/France) needs us to succeed and pull out of this mess more than we do. We are in a position to tell the ECB (not ask) to buy our bonds at 2%. It was the ECBs low interest rates that compounded our problems after all
 

hiding behind a poster

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They would, rightly, get a two-word answer. The second word being "off".
 

seanmacc

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And these three countries are currently a source of weakness for the euro.
There is no reason to believe that they will be anything other than a weakness for some time, and as pointed out above they are incentivised to look for a weaker euro.
Losing any of the countries by them either pulling out or them being thrown out will throw the whole Euro project into such turmoil I'd say it could collapse below the dollar. Currency movements are a strange thing but even one country pulling out shows the project to be a total failure and paves the way for others to pull out.
 

budgie29

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They have been in power for a very long time in Ireland, they clearly know how to tie shoe laces, they have been doing it for the Irish people for so long most of us are worried that if they went out of government we'd have to do it ourselves.
Dont think so:confused:. Pretty sure most people in the country are praying for this crowd to vacate the house and for democracy to be restored.

If Spain and Italy start to feel the pain as well we would represent a significant chunk of the euro area. Funny thing is Germany never wanted the euro, France coerced them into it in return for a united Germany. They were very sorry to give up the mighty DM. I think we will have to leave the euro eventually.

If this were to happen surely the markets would start charging France, Germany etc...higher rates as this is where the ECB cash would have to come from.
 

selkies

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Possibly.
Awesome, if I could just hold onto this moment where you concede that FF may do something that will help their election, then we are all on the road to rationality

Its quite clear at the moment that FF don't know what to do. The one thing that they are refusing to do is upset our European overlords.
I thought it was just the Germans, and they are only interested that we don't star up the Euro, they are hardly proper overlords.
That said, I'm pretty sure no one knows what to do.

I don't think FF realise that Europe (Germany/France) needs us to succeed and pull out of this mess more than we do. We are in a position to tell the ECB (not ask) to buy our bonds at 2%. It was the ECBs low interest rates that compounded our problems after all
Yeah but on the other hand, if we screw everyone they will get us back later.
So while we do hold some of the cards, they hold most of them.
 

seanmacc

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Yeah but on the other hand, if we screw everyone they will get us back later.
So while we do hold some of the cards, they hold most of them.
All we would ask is for the ECB to magic up a couple of billion euro out of thin air and put it into our bonds at 2%. Then when we change the leadership in this state we can actually plan on growing the economy again rather than contracting it.

It'll be a type of Quantitive Easing programme but wouldn't touch the amounts that the U.S, U.K and Japan have done recently
 


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