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Time to cut back Defence Forces


cyberianpan

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Jan 18, 2006
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€827,479m this year + €209,000m pensions

  • - scrap most of the army, keep just two battalions for internal security
  • - keep the navy as is
  • - scrap all the silly pretend fighter jets in the Aer Corps
We don't have the money for this pretend Dad's army any more

cYp
 

Luigi Vampa

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Jun 19, 2010
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3,252
So how come we can pay 100 Billion to FF bankers, speculators, gamblers and state- cash-for-trash SCAMA ?
 

TommyO'Brien

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Joined
Jan 14, 2009
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12,222
€827,479m this year + €209,000m pensions

  • - scrap most of the army, keep just two battalions for internal security
  • - keep the navy as is
  • - scrap all the silly pretend fighter jets in the Aer Corps
We don't have the money for this pretend Dad's army any more

cYp
Incredibly dumb post that shows you have no idea whatsoever what the Permanent Defence Forces actually does.

BTW there is no such thing as the "aer corps". It is the Air Corps or Aer Chór na hÉireann. It speaks volumes about your lack of knowledge of the PDF and RDF that you don't even know the correct name for one of the Services.
 

firefighter

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Sep 21, 2010
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334
The military spend as a % of GDP rates are falling. Rapidly.

A defence forces with a budget of €600m, where €250m goes on pensions is doomed to failure.

We don't have an overseas military capability because we simply can't afford it. Even during the boom years, we had to piggy-back off other nation's logistics in order to send soldiers overseas on UN missions.

The only thing the Defence Forces can hope for is that they have an EU battlegroup, for which the money for standard equipment comes from Brussels.
 
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Cael

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Jun 19, 2006
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Scrap the free state army. The IRA is the only Irish army that fights the enemies of Ireland.
 

Luigi Vampa

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There are already countless threads on all of the above. Stick to the subject matter of the OP and keep your whataboutery for the 3rd class debate team.
:rolleyes:
What we can afford is exactly on topic
So other than ad homienm, have you the capacity to make any point ?
 

nonpartyboy

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Dec 24, 2006
Messages
6,857
As a member of the defence forces once told me, if the army gets any smaller and the navy remains the same then the head of the navy will outrank the head of the army, something to do with anymore than seven ships requires an admiral which outranks a general,or something along them lines, politics my dear boy politics.
 

Aspherical123

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Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
2,584
€827,479m this year + €209,000m pensions

  • - scrap most of the army, keep just two battalions for internal security
  • - keep the navy as is
  • - scrap all the silly pretend fighter jets in the Aer Corps
We don't have the money for this pretend Dad's army any more

cYp

When the IMF come in this is what will happen.

The wage bill in the Irish public sector is unsustainable.
 

gijoe

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Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
15,419
€827,479m this year + €209,000m pensions

  • - scrap most of the army, keep just two battalions for internal security
  • - keep the navy as is
  • - scrap all the silly pretend fighter jets in the Aer Corps
We don't have the money for this pretend Dad's army any more

cYp
Even as an ex military man myself I have to agree. We have it ar*eways, as usual in this country, by systematically destroying the reserves but retaining a relatively large standing army. Just look at the size of the Canadian and Australian armies which are part of NATO and US defence pacts but are on a proportionate basis much smaller, and Australia is a regional power to boot.

If policy was done correctly we would have a standing defence force of circa 6000 instead of 9500. But complementing this would be a decently trained and equipped reserve force of 10-15,000. Instead we have a rapidly deteriorating and piss poorly resourced RDF of just 4-5,000.

I am sure that this policy approach would work out maybe €200-250million cheaper and with enhanced effectiveness where you could give unemployed RDF people short-term contracts to fulfill domestic duties if overseas duties stretched the PDF.

PS just as an aside the Defence Forces are also substantially over Officered with the Commissioned ranks accounting for almost precisely 1000 of the 9500 personnel. That ratio is much too low. Also, I saw figures that show that the 'hump' seems to have moved from the rank of Captain to Commandant. At the end of 2008 at least there were more Commandant's than Captain's in the PDF. Captain was traditionally known among Commissioned Officers as the 'hump' because it was getting promoted to Commandant determined if you had a long-term career in the military or if you should just retire after your 21 years as your career had stalled at the rank of Captain. They were also no less than 131 Lt-Col's - what the hell do they do all day? Thats no less than 13% of the Commissioned Officer ranks!
 
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Odyessus

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May 16, 2007
Messages
12,987
As a member of the defence forces once told me, if the army gets any smaller and the navy remains the same then the head of the navy will outrank the head of the army, something to do with anymore than seven ships requires an admiral which outranks a general,or something along them lines, politics my dear boy politics.

Everything you've been told is incorrect.
 

vanla sighs

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Sep 1, 2009
Messages
5,102
Good idea. I say cut it in half, sack 50% of the army. Cut wages by 30%. At least that way we'll have ourselves a nice little coup before Christmas. Drag FF out of the Dail and line em up boys. Tie Gormley and Co to a wind turbine.
 

firefighter

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Sep 21, 2010
Messages
334
The Equestrian wing should be scrapped.

They're essentially a bunch of Protestants using the army to pay for their expensive hobby.
 

MarkD

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Aug 10, 2005
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"The military spend as a % of GDP rates are falling. Rapidly."

When the Germans make Ireland raise corp tax then share of GDP will skyrocket... because GDP will have taken a huge bath :)

There's a good bit of bolloxology being talked above. Unless there's an intent to basically absent Ireland from any international duties then about 1500-2000 troops will be needed for nothing more than that training cycle (going out, out there, coming back). Even when we were knackered in the 80s we still kept UNIFIL etc. going (not to mention that the UN cash was probably welcome). The DF command structure might be over officered (not an offence solely Irish, look at the Royal Navy, more flag ranks than ships by now surely) but that's a personnel issue just as at one point the enlisted ranks age profile was left go way too high because of hiring freezes. Care has to be taken not to wreck what there is of the DF in the cause of panic savings.

Unlike the likes of the NRA, the DF didn't benefit too much from boom economics - yes, they got the Mowags and some other gear but they paid for it with barracks closures. If only they had gone balls out and sold Baldonnel and moved the Air Corps down to Shannon, they could have made a mint when Greater Dublin land was going for stupid money, and at least that would be land near N7, M50 and the Kildare Line.
 

firefighter

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Sep 21, 2010
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A hi-tech army could be the way forward.

1,000 highly qualified military personnel backed up by a similar amount of technical experts could have ten times the capability of 10,000 men for the same cost.

Missiles, UAVs, advanced surveillance tech, smart weapons, etc.

You can now fire air burst bullets from great distances that are automatically guided to a target, whereas back in the day, you'd have to have a sniper with years of experience to fire a standard bullet and couldn't get anywhere near the accuracy and range.
 
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Messages
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The government jets could go and pilot training outsourced to Waterford. Casement would be a great low costs hub, but DAA will never allow that now T2 is built.

A larger reserve with compulsory service for school leavers (based on a draft system, let's say 1000 a year, and opt out for Hon maths people!!!) would be a better way to run the army.

It would give all those Lt Col something to do.
 

KingKane

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kingkane
We are bust... we need to cut something. Reducing the army by 85% would save plenty

cYp
The notion that we'd reduce the army to a number less than that of the various armed criminals/dissidents etc wandering about the state is ludicrous.
 

cyberianpan

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The notion that we'd reduce the army to a number less than that of the various armed criminals/dissidents etc wandering about the state is ludicrous.
Two battalions, assuming one on active duty - so say one company in each province

Plus the EARW and some support / logistics... would be more than enough

If we are really scared of being over-run... 5,000 light infantry RDF would be plenty (the current RDF is a shambles)

cYp
 

ItsEvolution

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Jun 1, 2010
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A hi-tech army could be the way forward.

1,000 highly qualified military personnel backed up by a similar amount of technical experts could have ten times the capability of 10,000 men for the same cost.

Missiles, UAVs, advanced surveillance tech, smart weapons, etc.

You can now fire air burst bullets from great distances that are automatically guided to a target, whereas back in the day, you'd have to have a sniper with years of experience to fire a standard bullet and couldn't get anywhere near the accuracy and range.
This isn’t needed, keep our neutrality the way its suppose to be, we have no need for high tech weaponry, cuts in the armed forces is a fantastic idea and I believe a mature one at that.
 
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