Time to cut private school loose

thetruthsback

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In the face of the economic austerity measures we are facing on December 7th, is it about time we kicked those fee paying schools into touch?????
 


cry freedom

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In the face of the economic austerity measures we are facing on December 7th, is it about time we kicked those fee paying schools into touch?????
Do the people who send their children to these schools not pay taxes?
 

slippy wicket

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Hate to be devils advocate, but there are private schools and there are private schools if you get my point.
The one i went to had as many people from council estates and small farms, as wealthy people.
 

TradCat

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It would be more sensible to make all schools private. Sell them off to management companies who could hire and fire teachers based on ability. Parents would pay fees but those who really couldn't afford it would apply for help from the state. Many Teachers would earn less but that's inevitable anyway when the IMF come in. But the good ones would earn more.

Of course those who were of a collectivist disposition could get together with like-minded people and run a schools as a co-op. It would be a good opportunity for them to demonstrate their organisational skills before we trust them to run the country.
 

vanla sighs

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In the face of the economic austerity measures we are facing on December 7th, is it about time we kicked those fee paying schools into touch?????
Absolutely. Private should mean private. If people want to send their kids to private schools so be it but let them do it on their own backs. There's no reason why the State should be supporting private schools by paying the salaries of teachers in those private schools or paying anything else for that matter.
 

thetruthsback

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Most of these schools are elitist, with small class numbers and little social problems. If parents want their children to attend then let them pay the entire cost and not be subsidised by the PAYE sector!!!!
 

slippy wicket

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Most of these schools are elitist, with small class numbers and little social problems. If parents want their children to attend then let them pay the entire cost and not be subsidised by the PAYE sector!!!!
Most being the operative word, i am all for the elitist schools being treated as such, but there are other types of private schools.
 

Juverna

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Do the people who send their children to these schools not pay taxes?
I am sure they mostly do. However there seems to a reluctance to admit that those who can afford to send their children to a fee paying school do give their children the advantages of smaller class sizes etc. subsidised by the taxes of those who do not send their children to these schools. If private schools are to exist, let them be like the UK schools 100% paid for by the parents and not have the teachers salaries paid from the general tax pool.

I doubt there is any political will to tackle this because of vested interests across the parties. It would be interesting to see how many politicans were either in fee paying schools or send their children. Brian Cowen and Mary Coughlan attended boarding schools and Brian Lenihan attended Belvedere for a start.
 

Limerick Lad

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Most of these schools are elitist, with small class numbers and little social problems. If parents want their children to attend then let them pay the entire cost and not be subsidised by the PAYE sector!!!!
The Department of Education pays the salaries of teachers in private secondary schools on the same pupil/teacher ratio as exclusively public funded schools, any additional teachers that allow for smaller classes are funded by the fees paid by the parents who are also taxpayers.
 

Nonsence & lies

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Never going to happen. All we'll get from the next bunch of corrupt politicians on things like this and closing semi-states etc will be reports.
 

mr_anderson

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If private schools went completely private, then 90% of the kids would be taken out and sent to local schools because their parents couldn't afford the increase in fees.

Consequently, the class sizes in the local, national school would increase significantly.

Based on the fees they saved, the ex-private school parents could afford to send their kids to extra grinds etc.

The end result is 'rich' kids in national schools may well do even better at the leaving cert, while those who were already in the national school will suffer due to higher class sizes impacting on the time the teacher spends with them.
 

cry freedom

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I am sure they mostly do. However there seems to a reluctance to admit that those who can afford to send their children to a fee paying school do give their children the advantages of smaller class sizes etc. subsidised by the taxes of those who do not send their children to these schools. If private schools are to exist, let them be like the UK schools 100% paid for by the parents and not have the teachers salaries paid from the general tax pool.

I doubt there is any political will to tackle this because of vested interests across the parties. It would be interesting to see how many politicans were either in fee paying schools or send their children. Brian Cowen and Mary Coughlan attended boarding schools and Brian Lenihan attended Belvedere for a start.
Are you saying that parents of children attending these private schools are getting more than their fair share of the per head grant that all children receive.
And if not why the objection?
Is this some form of social justice and fair play that has somehow gone over my head, or is it just inverted snobbery.
 

Juverna

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The Department of Education pays the salaries of teachers in private secondary schools on the same pupil/teacher ratio as exclusively public funded schools, any additional teachers that allow for smaller classes are funded by the fees paid by the parents who are also taxpayers.
Yes and who benefits ? The State (us) pays the bulk of the bill for the private school and the parents only pay for the extra teachers-the kids get cosy little classes all at very good value for the parents.
 

ellie08

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I went to a private secondary school and some of the teachers were not qualified - graduates with an arts degree. Private schools are about profit - yes the class sizes were small and it was nice, but most decent teachers prefer to be employed by the state - they get their pension, summer pay, sick days etc.
 

captainwillard

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We have these chippy threads all the time.

I sent my children to private school and it was worth it. Small class sizes, good class discipline and outstanding results are the norm. I think the networking will be even more important over the next decade as jobs will be scarce and everyone has to get any advantage possible.
 

slx

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We have a public school system? Since when?

Ireland's pretty unique in the EU, having one of the only education systems that is publicly funded, but privately owned.

What public schools would you suggest these kids go to instead of the "private" ones they already attend?

Irish schools are typically either run by a religious organisation (most of them), the Gael Scoil movement or Educate Together. These are all private institutions.

If we're going to reform the education system and improve services and cut costs, we might look at implementing an actual public school system as the first step.

How much does it cost to have all of these flavours of school i.e. Catholic, Slightly snootier Catholics, boys, girls, protestant, Irish speaking, etc etc

We could simply have a proper public school system and leave religious education up to the parents, as is the case in the United State, France etc

Then you've got the ridiculous insistence on single-sex schools which cannot be good for kids and simply duplicates services.

Would you rather your kids go to some ridiculous gender and religious segregated school with no facilities, or a properly resourced school with people that actually represented the real community i.e. people of different genders and backgrounds?

It's a completely stupid system and it is one of those ridiculous aspects of Irish society that we just continue to take for granted without ever challenging it or debating it.
 

captainwillard

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Ireland's pretty unique in the EU, having one of the only education systems that is publicly funded, but privately owned.

What public schools would you suggest these kids go to instead of the "private" ones they already attend?

Irish schools are typically either run by a religious organisation (most of them), the Gael Scoil movement or Educate Together. These are all private institutions.

If we're going to reform the education system and improve services and cut costs, we might look at implementing an actual public school system as the first step.

How much does it cost to have all of these flavours of school i.e. Catholic, Slightly snootier Catholics, boys, girls, protestant, Irish speaking, etc etc

We could simply have a proper public school system and leave religious education up to the parents, as is the case in the United State, France etc

Then you've got the ridiculous insistence on single-sex schools which cannot be good for kids and simply duplicates services.

Would you rather your kids go to some ridiculous gender and religious segregated school with no facilities, or a properly resourced school with people that actually represented the real community i.e. people of different genders and backgrounds?

It's a completely stupid system and it is one of those ridiculous aspects of Irish society that we just continue to take for granted without ever challenging it or debating it.

Girls perform better in single sex schools.
 

uriah

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If private schools went completely private, then 90% of the kids would be taken out and sent to local schools because their parents couldn't afford the increase in fees.

Consequently, the class sizes in the local, national school would increase significantly.
Based on the fees they saved, the ex-private school parents could afford to send their kids to extra grinds etc.

The end result is 'rich' kids in national schools may well do even better at the leaving cert, while those who were already in the national school will suffer due to higher class sizes impacting on the time the teacher spends with them.
No. the increase in pupil would result in an increase in teachers.
 

Sierra

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All you would achieve with your grand plans is an increase in class sizes in public schools and more teachers on the doll.

No. the increase in pupil would result in an increase in teachers.
Oh. So much for the economic savings then.

:rolleyes:
 

Skin

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Any private school should be treated as such - private. Let them buy the land, build the school, hire the teachers, and pay for every last cent.
Otherwise use the public system. If people pay taxes, and then choose not to use the system that is provided by those taxes, that is their choice, but let them pay for it.
 


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