Time to get rid of the Common Travel Area

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,473
A lot of hot air about the Common Travel Area and it is fair to say it is one of the most sacred cows in the paddock. A article today in the Indo by an ex diplomat Niall Holohan got me thinking. Why do we need the CTA? Let's face it you need passports to get on most planes and boats no anyway and apart from the 6 counties it really makes little difference. And even then you are dealing with an island so a mechanism can be put in place. Maybe I am wrong but a particular piece jumped out at me in the article...............

The CTA is essentially a mechanism which enables the UK to control immigration into Ireland. In other words, Irish immigration authorities have to ensure that all non-nationals requiring visas to enter Ireland from outside the CTA are pre-approved by the British Home Office.
In my own experience serving in Irish embassies abroad, there have often been interminable delays while I waited for such pre-approvals to be granted for visa applicants wishing to holiday or study in Ireland - who under any other circumstances could only be described as highly desirable visitors. One could not help but suspect that requests for visa clearances emanating from our Department of Justice did not rank highly in the Home Office's list of priorities. Needless to say, consultation did not take place in the opposite direction.
I can see the benefits of Schengen but should really not be in Schengen just to safe guard a situation where we are a back door border guard for the UK?
 


ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,093
The CTA has allowed the British Irish Visa agreement where Chinese and Indian tourists can get a visa for either country and visit the other. This has proved a success with increased tourism from those countries (no jokes about aer lingus please ;)).

The CTA has also allowed both countries to share intelligence about people transiting to either country.

Both Ireland and the U.K. do not regard our respective citizens as aliens. This has allowed us to settle in the UK and British people to settle in Ireland without hindrance. Now I would safely assume this has provided much more benefits and opportunity to Irish people than British people coming here.

If there is a hard border in the North, you will see a return to violence. It would be a backwards step.

The CTA is not perfect but it is worth defending and in my view, enhancing in light of Brexit.
 

Erudite Caveman

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Messages
7,329
The Great Eastern North Atlantic Archipelago needs to be treated as a single entity for travel purposes if we are to maintain an international border, but at the same time have free movement across it. CTA is no sacred cow, but she's a good one all the same.
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
6,559
Website
www.merrionstreet.ie
Do we have enough jobs and homes for all the Irish to return in there thousands? Or do you think the UK is a charity that should keep on giving to Ireland?
 

Hans Von Horn

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
1,594
A lot of hot air about the Common Travel Area and it is fair to say it is one of the most sacred cows in the paddock. A article today in the Indo by an ex diplomat Niall Holohan got me thinking. Why do we need the CTA? Let's face it you need passports to get on most planes and boats no anyway and apart from the 6 counties it really makes little difference. And even then you are dealing with an island so a mechanism can be put in place. Maybe I am wrong but a particular piece jumped out at me in the article...............


I can see the benefits of Schengen but should really not be in Schengen just to safe guard a situation where we are a back door border guard for the UK?
The Common Travel Area is bound up with the Right of Irish Nationals to Live , work, and vote in the UK. Irish citizens ("citizens of Eire") lost British-subject status automatically on 1 January 1949 if they did not acquire citizenship of the UK and Colonies or that of another Commonwealth Country.


The Common Travel Area derives from the Immigration Act 1971 Section 1 (3)

(3) Arrival in and departure from the United Kingdom on a local journey from or to any of the Islands (that is to say, the Channel Islands and Isle of Man) or the Republic of Ireland shall not be subject to control under this Act, nor shall a person require leave to enter the United Kingdom on so arriving, except in so far as any of those places is for any purpose excluded from this subsection under the powers conferred by this Act; and in this Act the United Kingdom and those places, or such of them as are not so excluded, are collectively referred to as “the common travel area”.
 

Deadlock

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2011
Messages
6,170
If the cost of maintaining the CTA is UK Border Agency staff at Irish Air- and Seaports, it's too high a price.
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
6,559
Website
www.merrionstreet.ie
The CTA allows Irish citizens to live and work in the UK, long before the EU. If the UK leaves under Brexit and we leave the CTA what reason would the UK have to keep the Irish over there when they are one of the biggest group who claim social welfare in the UK.

Do you think the UK is a charity for our benefit?
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,093
If the cost of maintaining the CTA is UK Border Agency staff at Irish Air- and Seaports, it's too high a price.
That won't happen. Both Ireland and UK have legislation already to refuse entry to individuals not acceptable to the other country if they intend to travel there.
 

locke

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
3,214
It's not feasible to get rid of it when the situation with the 6 counties persists. There are far more people cross that border than enter the country through all the ports and airports combined.

Should we ever see a United Ireland, it may be best to assess whether we want it to persist, join Schengen or have our own arrangement. However, even then I would caution that abandoning the CTA would send all the wrong signals to the Unionist community in the North, who would be feeling understandably put out by the situation already.
 

Hans Von Horn

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
1,594
If the cost of maintaining the CTA is UK Border Agency staff at Irish Air- and Seaports, it's too high a price.
What is the problem ?
 

gleeful

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
7,520
It's not feasible to get rid of it when the situation with the 6 counties persists. There are far more people cross that border than enter the country through all the ports and airports combined.

Should we ever see a United Ireland, it may be best to assess whether we want it to persist, join Schengen or have our own arrangement. However, even then I would caution that abandoning the CTA would send all the wrong signals to the Unionist community in the North, who would be feeling understandably put out by the situation already.
Brexit will almost certainly end the CTA. There will be a border.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,473
The CTA has allowed the British Irish Visa agreement where Chinese and Indian tourists can get a visa for either country and visit the other. This has proved a success with increased tourism from those countries (no jokes about aer lingus please ;)).

The CTA has also allowed both countries to share intelligence about people transiting to either country.

Both Ireland and the U.K. do not regard our respective citizens as aliens. This has allowed us to settle in the UK and British people to settle in Ireland without hindrance. Now I would safely assume this has provided much more benefits and opportunity to Irish people than British people coming here.

If there is a hard border in the North, you will see a return to violence. It would be a backwards step.

The CTA is not perfect but it is worth defending and in my view, enhancing in light of Brexit.
We had the CTA when we had a hard border. We can still share intelligence without having unrestricted travel. Furthermore while I take the point on travel we would get more tourists via shengen which is a much bigger and more populous are.
 

Passer-by

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
1,428
The Common Travel Area is bound up with the Right of Irish Nationals to Live , work, and vote in the UK. Irish citizens ("citizens of Eire") lost British-subject status automatically on 1 January 1949 if they did not acquire citizenship of the UK and Colonies or that of another Commonwealth Country.


The Common Travel Area derives from the Immigration Act 1971 Section 1 (3)

(3) Arrival in and departure from the United Kingdom on a local journey from or to any of the Islands (that is to say, the Channel Islands and Isle of Man) or the Republic of Ireland shall not be subject to control under this Act, nor shall a person require leave to enter the United Kingdom on so arriving, except in so far as any of those places is for any purpose excluded from this subsection under the powers conferred by this Act; and in this Act the United Kingdom and those places, or such of them as are not so excluded, are collectively referred to as “the common travel area”.
No it is not. The UK can abolish the CTA tomorrow morning while leaving the rights of Irish citizens to live, work and vote in the U.K. unaltered. Equally they could abolish some of all of live, work and vote rights while leaving the CTA in situ.
 

Passer-by

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
1,428
It's not feasible to get rid of it when the situation with the 6 counties persists. There are far more people cross that border than enter the country through all the ports and airports combined.
Of course it is feasible. It might be a great annoyance to people who need to cross the border on a daily or weekly basis but it is certainly physically doable.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,473


New Threads

Most Replies

Top