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Time to stop Hand Outs to Landowners


Cael

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Now that Ireland is bankrupt, is it not time to stop forcing the taxpayer to fork out two billion euro a year in hand outs to farmers? I find it obscene that people living in bedsits are being forced to pay hand outs to landowners who are strolling about in their private parks. I also find the EU protectionism on food to be ridiculous. If they want capitalism and free markets, let them have capitalism and free markets. Why should good state companies be forced to privatise in the name of "competition" but landowners be protected from competition and gives bags of free money?
 


firefighter

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Sep 21, 2010
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FF have a core vote of 20% to 25% for a reason.

The kind of people who are about 3 stone overweight and have pub grub lunches in 4* hotels 2 or 3 times a week (I was at a conference down the country about 3 weeks ago and the hotel was crawling with such leisurely SUV-driving FF "farmer" types).

You can rest assured that the landlords' dole will also remain untouched for Budget 2011. They'd sooner get their pound of flesh by cutting 25% off the dole and hope that nobody will notice in a hullabaloo over "dole fraud" or lazy young men sitting at home "smoking weed all day". Expect a Prime Time special to distract the masses.

As for farmers not getting their handouts? lol. You think sheep in the Dept. of Agriculture on Kildare Street is bad? How about tractors blocking up O'Connell Street and burning hay bales up Kildare Street?

Take away their inheritance exemption and you might as well drop a nuke on the Pale.
 
Last edited:

pujols

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So because some people are hurting, you want to destroy everyone else livelihood?

Ending farm subsidies will take time and careful planning, it shouldn't be done in a way that will destroy these families.

Large scale change to an economy takes time, enough folks are hurting. Lets not make it worse.

As for your gratuitous reference to 'private parks', get a grip.
 

Cael

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FF have a core vote of 20% to 25% for a reason.

You can rest assured that the landlords' dole will remain untouched for Budget 2011. As for farmers not getting their handouts? lol. You think sheep in the Dept. of Agriculture on Kildare Street is bad? How about tractors blocking up O'Connell Street and burning hay bales up Kildare Street?
Yes, Fianna Fáil are certainly better at taking money from handicapped children than from sacred cows.
 

Cael

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So because some people are hurting, you want to destroy everyone else livelihood?

Ending farm subsidies will take time and careful planning, it shouldn't be done in a way that will destroy these families.

Large scale change to an economy takes time, enough folks are hurting. Lets not make it worse.

As for your gratuitous reference to 'private parks', get a grip.
The Irish word for field is páirc. Many fields are bigger than many public parks.

But, why do you think farmers should be protected from economic reality - when everyone else has to pay?
 

pujols

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The Irish word for field is páirc. Many fields are bigger than many public parks.

But, why do you think farmers should be protected from economic reality - when everyone else has to pay?
I do not think they should be 'protected' from economic reality but I think that ending susbsidies should be done on a phased basis to avoid the huge economic dislocation that would follow a 'cold turkey' halt.

That is all.
 

Barnacle

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FF won't want to touch farmers but they may have no choice. Farmers special VAT rates is also crazy. What other trade would the Government allow a refund of VAT from the purchase of goods from someone unregistered and increase the net paid to the seller.
 

Cael

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I do not think they should be 'protected' from economic reality but I think that ending susbsidies should be done on a phased basis to avoid the huge economic dislocation that would follow a 'cold turkey' halt.

That is all.
If you are getting loads of free money, and it stops, there is always going to be economic dislocation. These hand out are supposed to stop in 2013 anyway - but, of course, the assumption is that they will simply be renewed in another form.
 

Cael

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Of course, in reality, not only should the hand outs be stopped, but a land valuation tax also brought in.
 

biteback

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This has been debated here extensively before, with Cael failing to understand the importance of subsidies to the agri sector despite all the anecdotal evidence, statistics, research and otherwise thrown at him. However here are 2 major reasons though I'm sure Cael won't be able to grasp them...

1) Ending these subsidies would mean at least 120,000 more people on the dole. Or are you in favour of speeding up the rate of emigration? You claim (in your best 'Daily Star' style rhetoric) that its easier to take away money from handicapped children than farmers. Would you prefer all income was taken away from up to 120,000 parents?

2) Lets say there was another world war. At the moment it doesn't seem likely, but if there was then it would be every country for itself in terms of food production. That means if Ireland had no agri sector, then it would leave Ireland in a pretty bad situation if a war did occur.

Oh and not all farmers drive SUV's or vote FF. In fact there are many who would never vote FF due to civil war politics meaning their great great whoever voted FG and meaning they must vote FG as a result. That's a whole other issue but demonstrates that FF aren't the only one rural Ireland votes for.
 

charley

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200,000 licenced firearms in the country 99% of them in the hands of farmers ,do you feel lucky?
 

Cael

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This has been debated here extensively before, with Cael failing to understand the importance of subsidies to the agri sector despite all the anecdotal evidence, statistics, research and otherwise thrown at him.

Free cash is always important to anyone lucky enough, or well connected enough, to get it. It's also important to the workers who have to pay it. There is now nearly half a million on the dole. The question is: why should landless workers facing cuts, unemployment and emigration, be forced to put their hands in their pockets and give free money to other people just because they are rich in land?
 

Cael

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200,000 licenced firearms in the country 99% of them in the hands of farmers ,do you feel lucky?
Farmers only make up 4% of the population. Do you really think they can continue to blackmail the other 96% of us?
 

Cael

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1) Ending these subsidies would mean at least 120,000 more people on the dole. Or are you in favour of speeding up the rate of emigration? You claim (in your best 'Daily Star' style rhetoric) that its easier to take away money from handicapped children than farmers. Would you prefer all income was taken away from up to 120,000 parents?

.
Those 120,000 have the means of making a living, i.e. the land. If they cant make a living from it, then they should do something that they are able to do. Thats capitalism.
 

charley

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Farmers only make up 4% of the population. Do you really think they can continue to blackmail the other 96% of us?
They make up a lot more than 4%. Farm families are usually quite large , there is at least 1million directly associated with agriculture.
The secession of Dublin from the rest of Ireland needs to be debated over the next few months and put to a referendum as soon as possible. As most of the national debt is in this corrupt city the rest of Ireland would soon return to economic harmony
 

charley

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Those 120,000 have the means of making a living, i.e. the land. If they cant make a living from it, then they should do something that they are able to do. Thats capitalism.
The imposition of quota to prevent them making the most of their land ,should that be addressed.
 

Cael

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They make up a lot more than 4%. Farm families are usually quite large , there is at least 1million directly associated with agriculture.
The secession of Dublin from the rest of Ireland needs to be debated over the next few months and put to a referendum as soon as possible. As most of the national debt is in this corrupt city the rest of Ireland would soon return to economic harmony
Many farmers today are old batchelors. In no way are there a million people directly involved with agriculture - and, even if they were, they are not getting the hand outs, only the actual landowners are.

As for it being the corrupt city slickers who caused the crisis. Wrong again. Yes the builders and bankers were corrupt - but it was the landowners who they had to pay. The landowners got the big bucks and took none of the risks. Between 2005 and 2008, farmers got 13 billion euro for development land - that along with 6 billion euro in farmers dole in the same three years. And you want us to feel sorry for these people???
 

Xiogenes

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Cael

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The imposition of quota to prevent them making the most of their land ,should that be addressed.
Yes, of course. If we are in a capitalist system, then let them produce what they can. But, let them get no hand outs, and pay land valuation tax.
 

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