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Time to stop Universal payment of Child Benefit


Tony Soprano

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Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
356
surely its high time we stopped paying out child benefit to all, regardless of means?

its galling to think that multi-millionaires and people who are well-off are collecting a welfare payment whilst the country is on its knees.

even more galling to hear Joan Burton defend this nonsense on TV3 last night by saying that there are some wealthy men who dont give their wives enough money to live on!! If you heard this from a politician from the 1950s, youd be hard-pressed to stifle your laughter!!
 

seanmacc

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Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
1,022
surely its high time we stopped paying out child benefit to all, regardless of means?

its galling to think that multi-millionaires and people who are well-off are collecting a welfare payment whilst the country is on its knees.

even more galling to hear Joan Burton defend this nonsense on TV3 last night by saying that there are some wealthy men who don't give their wives enough money to live on!! If you heard this from a politician from the 1950s, you'd be hard-pressed to stifle your laughter!!
The minute the children's allowance is means tested year by year the government will move the goal posts on the qualifying criteria until nobody qualifies for it and it will get abolished. The children's allowance gives so many families a lifeline every month particularly at this time of year (free education my hole).

Also if you just want to limit the people who don't qualify to just millionaires it will end up costing so much in admin and civil service hours so as to make the savings very minimal.
 

locke

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Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
3,091
Screw the middle classes again?

Why not just apply income tax to it at the rate the parents are paying? That seems fairer.
 

brughahaha

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Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
15,284
Another of the sacred cows of Irish middle class belief like property tax
Should have been scrapped years ago ...
Pat Kenny had a woman on about 6 months ago defending it yet admitting it all went in to a college trust fund
Its a stupid inequitable waste fo money and should be means tested on a sliding scale or abolished completely with the money spent on nursery and primary education
 

gijoe

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Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
15,419
How about we make a start by making it payable only to EU and EFTA citizens. That would be an even better start.
 

Aindriu

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Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,702
For starters they can stop paying it to children who are not resident in the state!

Secondly, the idea of paying a higher amount for second and subsequent children is absurd. It should be lower not higher.
 

goatstoe

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Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
2,071
I'd be in favour of scrapping universal child benefit so long as a mechanism is applied that actually saves money. As another poster said means testing costs a lot of money to administer. Something should be done about universal child benefit, people who don't need it use it as a savings scheme. So maybe increasing income tax against those who don't need it would be a more cost effective way to deal with it.
 

Franzoni

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Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
16,469
The minute the children's allowance is means tested year by year the government will move the goal posts on the qualifying criteria until nobody qualifies for it and it will get abolished. The children's allowance gives so many families a lifeline every month particularly at this time of year (free education my hole).

.
How many people on here who have kids and are in low paying jobs or finding it extremely hard to get work,who are calling for it to be abolished...?

very few i would imagine....your spot on about the so called 'free education' system...a joke and an expensive one at that if you have a few going to school

anyone who thinks that FF will be the bad guys who will abolish the child benefit is either politically naive or a moron.....even Kenny will remember the VAT on childrens shoes fiasco or the OAP's a couple of years ago if he gets into power...imagine thousands of families on the streets with mothers pushing buggies protesting.....
 

Harmonica

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Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
5,827
If the state needs to provide subsidised childcare so be it but the idea that we pay billions in childrens allowance as some sort of blanket subsidy is ridiculous. I am open to correction but I believe this costs us 2.5 billion a year.

Brutons reasoning that we should continue to pay this because some women have to access to their rich husbands cash is crazy.
 

goatstoe

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Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
2,071
If the state needs to provide subsidised childcare so be it but the idea that we pay billions in childrens allowance as some sort of blanket subsidy is ridiculous. I am open to correction but I believe this costs us 2.5 billion a year.

Brutons reasoning that we should continue to pay this because some women have to access to their rich husbands cash is crazy.
Keep the universal benefit, apply a dedicated increase on income tax to those above a given threshold for the direct same amount. They can march all they like, they don't need it and sympathy will dry up fairly soon for them. I heard Joan Burton say something similar about women not been able to access cash on TV3 last night. Well she should be thinking about another cost effective way to claw back that money from well off people who don't need the children's allowance if she wants to maintain the universal nature of the scheme.
 

The Lighthouse Keeper

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
764
Make sure it's spent on the children!

For starters they can stop paying it to children who are not resident in the state!

Secondly, the idea of paying a higher amount for second and subsequent children is absurd. It should be lower not higher.
+1

Should be immediately implemented this budget.

Incentivising larger families for the purposes of attracting greater welfare payments was always a bad idea, given the sector of society who, more than others, found this option irresistibly attractive (normal even).

I also think it should not be paid in cash but maybe in the form of an electronic purse card to be used for paying for food, clothes and educational goods and services. No off-licences or tobacconists need apply.

The balance should be low or spent before any subsequent payment is made. i.e. use it or lose it!
People are well used to loyalty/store cards at this stage so it should not be a big leap. It could be incorporated into the proposed PPSN card.

This would put a stop to the middle-class squirreling (or the monthly trip to Grafton Street :lol: ) and get some regular spending into the economy.
 

charley

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
1,247
+1

Should be immediately implemented this budget.

Incentivising larger families for the purposes of attracting greater welfare payments was always a bad idea, given the sector of society who, more than others, found this option irresistibly attractive (normal even).

I also think it should not be paid in cash but maybe in the form of an electronic purse card to be used for paying for food, clothes and educational goods and services. No off-licences or tobacconists need apply.

The balance should be low or spent before any subsequent payment is made. People are well used to loyalty/store cards at this stage so it should not be a big leap. It could be incorporated into the proposed PPSN card.

This would put a stop to the middle-class squirreling (or the monthly trip to Grafton Street :lol: ) and get some regular spending into the economy.
Would cost more, You or I can go to the shop and buy a loaf for €1.39 if the government were buying the same loaf it would end up costing €5.
It would end up being nothing more than a subsidy to Dunnes Stores
 

Bow tie

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
351
As already stated, the problem with most methods of removing its' universality is incurring further Costs into the system.

Anti-fraud letters are now being sent out regularly to more and more recipients to identify those who have left the country, and that's a start.
Above all the application form for Child Benefit should contain a tick box allowing data to be shared between Gov departments- would that be legal?

I don't know that I believe that a high % of people are still able to save this due to the high cost of Childcare, and for those not working, simply the cost of living.
Those calling for it to be income taxed, can we stop penalising the working classes yet? Maybe provide proper affordable childcare as a norm, or tax relief at higher level on the costs of childcare instead of payment of Child benefit? For those not working, continue the benefit at a reduced rate dependant on family income/circumstances?
 

Bridget558

Active member
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
297
Child benifit should be abolished

I think the goverment should abolish child benifit, we can no longer afford to be giving the rich money, they could give people on benifits with children extra money every week and they could also increase family income supplement rates and income imits.
 

captainwillard

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
2,897
I think the goverment should abolish child benifit, we can no longer afford to be giving the rich money, they could give people on benifits with children extra money every week and they could also increase family income supplement rates and income imits.
Yeah... lets support the underclass.
 

Sync

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Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
28,845
/MOD/ Thread on child benefit here. Merged. /MOD/
 

Gemlarkin

Active member
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Messages
239
Why no tax allowances for Children?

Keep the universal benefit, apply a dedicated increase on income tax to those above a given threshold for the direct same amount. They can march all they like, they don't need it and sympathy will dry up fairly soon for them. I heard Joan Burton say something similar about women not been able to access cash on TV3 last night. Well she should be thinking about another cost effective way to claw back that money from well off people who don't need the children's allowance if she wants to maintain the universal nature of the scheme.
Why no tax allowances for Children?
 

kerdasi amaq

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Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
4,690
Why stop the Children's Allowance? So that the money saved can be given to undeserving(really, really, undeserving), already filthy rich, foreign bankers?
 
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