To prevent an apartheid state, Israel should offer Israeli citizenship to Palestinians

Patslatt1

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The government of Israel's plan to annex large chunks of the proposed Palestinian state could undermine Israel's relationship with the EU. In time,maybe over a decade or more, human rights advocates likely will increase pressure for trade and other sanctions againt Israel similar to those applied against apartheid South Africa.
Irish human rights advocates may lead the way as they did with South Africa.As Newstalk Radio's Ciara pointed out to an advocate today,they seem to focus exclusively on Israel, ignoring terrible human rights violations in Saudi Arabia and China among many other countries. Possibly they see parallels between Palestine and the Troubles in Northern Ireland.
Sympathy for the Jewish Holocaust in WW2 and solidarity with Israel's democracy has prevented movement towards such sanctions but this sympathy will erode in time. For instance,there is surprisingly little awareness of the deaths of about twenty million Soviet citizens in WW2.
Security concerns aside, the main obstacle to a Palestinian state worthy of the name is the claim of Jewish settlers to Palestinian territories based on the Old Testament's statement that the territiory is Jewish. There is no arguing with such religious fundamentalism and the settlers and their supporters have considerable influence over the Israeli government. The continuing build-up of settler settlements has created a reality on the ground all across the territories which would be difficult for any Israeli government to give up.
A possible political solution would be an offer of Israeli citizenship to Palestinians. There are Arab Israelis who already have citizenship,so this offfer would be seen as an extension of that. Many Palestinians might be attracted by the benefits of the Israeli welfare state and a guarantee of property rights. Palestinian representation in Israel's parliament would have the balance of power that would ensure these.
The most difficult challenge might be to satisfy Israelis about the security of Israel in a parliament with a very high proportion of Palestinians. Israelis would want to control the military and security services and their budgets until they become confident in relations with Palestinians on security matters. Since building that confidence might take several decades, they should be allowed to keep this control until a majority of them voted to give it up.
 
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Sync

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Yeah that’s thats the most difficult challenge. Not the challenge of trying to convince the Palestinians to give up their identity. Maybe the British should have tried that with the Irish. “forget about independence, we’ll let you call yourselves British. Sher isn’t that better?”

And they can’t “prevent” an apartheid state. It’s already an apartheid state.
 

Patslatt1

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Yeah that’s thats the most difficult challenge. Not the challenge of trying to convince the Palestinians to give up their identity. Maybe the British should have tried that with the Irish. “forget about independence, we’ll let you call yourselves British. Sher isn’t that better?”

And they can’t “prevent” an apartheid state. It’s already an apartheid state.
The Scottish and Welch identities are strong despite the UK's historically overcentralised state. German speaking Alsace voted itself back into France in a referendum after WW1. The fact that most Palestinians live physically separately from Israelis should prevent erosion of their identity. A large representation in the Israeli parliament would support their cultural identity.
 

former wesleyan

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Yeah that’s thats the most difficult challenge. Not the challenge of trying to convince the Palestinians to give up their identity. Maybe the British should have tried that with the Irish. “forget about independence, we’ll let you call yourselves British. Sher isn’t that better?”

And they can’t “prevent” an apartheid state. It’s already an apartheid state.
Until independence the Irish were British whether they wanted to be or not. And how is Israel an Apartheid state ? And I mean within its borders, not as the occupying power in the West Bank where according to the Oslo agreement the Palestinians vote for the PA. What can a Druze , for example, not do in Israel ? Or a Maronite , or a Circassian , or a Ba'ahai, or a Muslim or any of the minorities who seem to scratch along . Have you a template for what Israel should be - occupation aside - using the ME in general.
 

Patslatt1

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Until independence the Irish were British whether they wanted to be or not. And how is Israel an Apartheid state ? And I mean within its borders, not as the occupying power in the West Bank where according to the Oslo agreement the Palestinians vote for the PA. What can a Druze , for example, not do in Israel ? Or a Maronite , or a Circassian , or a Ba'ahai, or a Muslim or any of the minorities who seem to scratch along . Have you a template for what Israel should be - occupation aside - using the ME in general.
ME Middle East.
 

neiphin

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The Scottish and Welch identities are strong despite the UK's historically overcentralised state. German speaking Alsace voted itself back into France in a referendum after WW1. The fact that most Palestinians live physically separately from Israelis should prevent erosion of their identity. A large representation in the Israeli parliament would support their cultural identity.
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neiphin

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Until independence the Irish were British whether they wanted to be or not. And how is Israel an Apartheid state ? And I mean within its borders, not as the occupying power in the West Bank where according to the Oslo agreement the Palestinians vote for the PA. What can a Druze , for example, not do in Israel ? Or a Maronite , or a Circassian , or a Ba'ahai, or a Muslim or any of the minorities who seem to scratch along . Have you a template for what Israel should be - occupation aside - using the ME in general.
 

yanshuf

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The "abartheid" is a leftistic euphemism for the wish to ethnicly cleanse all the Jews from Judea and Samaria.

The so called balastinians did it a few times, but after the six day war they saw the resettlement of Jews there, and they didn't succeed in ethnically cleansing the Jews yet again. So they are now trying, encouraged by leftistics worlwide, other tactics.

We're not going to surrender so quickly. We see how much abartheid is Israel when the so called balastinians are given a chance to live in Israel, they simply embrace the opportunity.

Israelis are not going to listen to biased anti-zionist leftistics from Ireland, and certainly not the BDSMers.
 

wombat

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The government of Israel's plan to annex large chunks of the proposed Palestinian state could undermine Israel's relationship with the EU.
Israel have 2 powerful allies - the USA and Germany, so our Israel haters are pretty irrelevant.
 

Patslatt1

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Israel have 2 powerful allies - the USA and Germany, so our Israel haters are pretty irrelevant.
If the present prime minister of Israel proceeds to grab chunks of Palstinian territory in blatant disregard of international law, he will be overplaying his hand.The support of the US and Germany for Israel could turn into opposition. It would be hypocritical of the US and Germany to condemn the territorial aggressions of China and Russia while refusing to support the Palestinian Authority which has promised to declare an independent repubic if the land grab proceeds.
 
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Patslatt1

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The "abartheid" is a leftistic euphemism for the wish to ethnicly cleanse all the Jews from Judea and Samaria.

The so called balastinians did it a few times, but after the six day war they saw the resettlement of Jews there, and they didn't succeed in ethnically cleansing the Jews yet again. So they are now trying, encouraged by leftistics worlwide, other tactics.

We're not going to surrender so quickly. We see how much abartheid is Israel when the so called balastinians are given a chance to live in Israel, they simply embrace the opportunity.

Israelis are not going to listen to biased anti-zionist leftistics from Ireland, and certainly not the BDSMers.
Judea and Samaria are the names of territories named as Jewish in the Old Testament. Is your political view largely shaped by the Old Testament? If it is, there is no room for rational argument with such religious belief.
 

Patslatt1

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Until independence the Irish were British whether they wanted to be or not. And how is Israel an Apartheid state ? And I mean within its borders, not as the occupying power in the West Bank where according to the Oslo agreement the Palestinians vote for the PA. What can a Druze , for example, not do in Israel ? Or a Maronite , or a Circassian , or a Ba'ahai, or a Muslim or any of the minorities who seem to scratch along . Have you a template for what Israel should be - occupation aside - using the ME in general.
The continued construction of Israeli settlements sprinkled throughout the Palestinian territory furthers the ambition of religious and nationalistic settlers to assert the Old Testament claim that Judea and Samaria belong to Jews. There is so much investment involved that any Israeli government would face massive opposition to the creation of a Palestinian state that had the power to nationalise the settlements,many of whose inhabitants are hostile to Palestinian control.
 

Ardillaun

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Pat, this is quite the departure. And you raise an interesting point in one sentence.

For instance,there is surprisingly little awareness of the deaths of about twenty million Soviet citizens in WW2.
There should certainly be more awareness of this and of Hitler’s plans for most humans on the planet, doomed to be worked to death in the service of the Third Reich. Hitler didn’t kill as many as Mao because he didn’t get the chance to.
 

former wesleyan

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The continued construction of Israeli settlements sprinkled throughout the Palestinian territory furthers the ambition of religious and nationalistic settlers to assert the Old Testament claim that Judea and Samaria belong to Jews. There is so much investment involved that any Israeli government would face massive opposition to the creation of a Palestinian state that had the power to nationalise the settlements,many of whose inhabitants are hostile to Palestinian control.
The majority of the settlements are around Jerusalem and can be incorporated in Israel with corresponding land swops of Arab majority areas . This has all been hammered out before and the failure of talks is caused by the right of return for Arabs who've inherited refugee status since 1948/9 and not settlements.
 

yanshuf

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Judea and Samaria are the names of territories named as Jewish in the Old Testament. Is your political view largely shaped by the Old Testament? If it is, there is no room for rational argument with such religious belief.
Judea and Samaria are names still used today by Israelis. My view is shaped by history, and the Jewish settlements are nothing but a correction of historical injustices, like the prohibition of Jews to live there, and the arab (so called balastinian) ethnic cleansings of the Jews from those areas and from Gaza, back in the 1920's-1940's.

And one last thing - the arabs were up to 1967 fighting to establish a balastinian state. Where? In pre-1967 Israel. They never abandoned their plan, but now they just added the self-victimization into the equation.
 

Clanrickard

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Yeah that’s thats the most difficult challenge. Not the challenge of trying to convince the Palestinians to give up their identity. Maybe the British should have tried that with the Irish. “forget about independence, we’ll let you call yourselves British. Sher isn’t that better?”

And they can’t “prevent” an apartheid state. It’s already an apartheid state.
It isn't. The usual slur being trotted ok repeatedly doesn't make it right.
 

Clanrickard

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The majority of the settlements are around Jerusalem and can be incorporated in Israel with corresponding land swops of Arab majority areas . This has all been hammered out before and the failure of talks is caused by the right of return for Arabs who've inherited refugee status since 1948/9 and not settlements.
Correct. And as Barack Obama said "that's not going to happen".
 

font

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Judea and Samaria are the names of territories named as Jewish in the Old Testament.
As well as Jerusalem and many other names in the region. Are you going to dictate the Jews what names they should use?
And what is your obsession with the Old Testament? It looks like you deny existence of the Jewish people, their history and their national identity.
 

Patslatt1

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The majority of the settlements are around Jerusalem and can be incorporated in Israel with corresponding land swops of Arab majority areas . This has all been hammered out before and the failure of talks is caused by the right of return for Arabs who've inherited refugee status since 1948/9 and not settlements.
Maps I've seen of settlements in media show that they are sprinkled throughout the Palestinian territories.See map of israeli settlements in west bank - Google Search
 
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