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Todays report has been caused by FF incompetence.

Digout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
1,389
There are a number of threads on the bord snip report, and this is not another one. I am a believer in stopping problems before they start. So, lets look at what brought us to this point.

FF are now going to attack the public sector, pitting private workers against public. They are trying to focus a debate on what should be cut. This is all a smokescreen. We need to examine why we are at this point, and we need to make sure we are never here again.

Fact : Our public services is one of the highest paid in the work. Why? Simple, we had an FF fueled housing bubble. People needed to be paid more to pay for somewhere to live. Who gave the massive payrises? Who was responsible for benchmarking? Who let the fire burn out of control?

Brian Cowen is responsible for this. He was the minister for finance who did nothing as the economy roared out of control. Our economy has now crashed, and Cowen was at the wheel, driving us full speed into a wall.

We are all being told to expect pain and to "put our shoulders to the wheel". Has anybody seen Seanie Fitz taking some pain? Muckey Fingers walked away from INBS with a €29 million. Most of the rest of the developers are not paying their loans. The TD's are not giving back the pensions due to "legal issues". Martin Cullen still flies around in helicopters. The gravy train is still running full steam ahead.

FF let their property friends run riot and that is what has caused this mess. Its not international factors.

FF and their cronies are to blame for this mess. Dont forget this. Ignore all the sideshows, deflections and spin. They must be punished accordingly.
 
Last edited:


FakeViking

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
8,932
There are around 30 Ministers and Juniors. All vastly overpaid and pensioned, with cars, large constituency offices, drivers, retirement packages. Yet they don't have the balls to make cuts when the economy falters, they need to invite in an outsider to avoid decision making. They should be in jail.
 

Digout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
1,389
There are around 30 Ministers and Juniors. All vastly overpaid and pensioned, with cars, large constituency offices, drivers, retirement packages. Yet they don't have the balls to make cuts when the economy falters, they need to invite in an outsider to avoid decision making. They should be in jail.
You forgot to mention special advisors. Remember how much Moncia leech was paid? She aint alone.
 

destinysoldier

New member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
2
So FF now ran the banks?

Playing the blame game will not turn around the situation that was caused by an over exhuberent banking system and a global meltdown
 

DCon

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
5,889
How much did the Bord Snip report cost?
 

Digout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
1,389
So FF now ran the banks?

Playing the blame game will not turn around the situation that was caused by an over exhuberent banking system and a global meltdown

They were supposed to regulate them, the failed to do it. They allowed property to bubble, a shit former council house in Drimnagh/Crumlim used to cost €600k, yup, thats 20X the average salary.

FF we at the wheel as this happened. FF are responsible.
 

FakeViking

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
8,932
Ah I see your logic, Bertie caused the credit crunch
Ahern did everything in his power to fuel the property speculation market in Ireland with ridiculous tax breaks for unsaleable developments, buying votes with daft benchmarking deals, decentralisation (and we all know who bought up land immediately before the locations were announced).
 

todaytonight

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
27
decentralisation (and we all know who bought up land immediately before the locations were announced).
If there is proof of that it should be reported to the Gardai.
I suspect insider information was used but I've seen no individual accused
 

Digout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
1,389
If there is proof of that it should be reported to the Gardai.
I suspect insider information was used but I've seen no individual accused
The Garda are there to protect the elites. Not one person has ever been charged here for any messing in the banks over the last 40 years.
 

controller

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
3,149
I'm all for blaming FF, but the fact is we are in a mess and we (the people, the gov.) should be looking at ways to get out of the mess, not sitting around looking for people to blame. That can occur later
 

Digout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
1,389
I'm all for blaming FF, but the fact is we are in a mess and we (the people, the gov.) should be looking at ways to get out of the mess, not sitting around looking for people to blame. That can occur later
NO. The people who made the decision that took us here are not capable of making the decisions to get us out of this mess. We need a general election now. FF governed for their friends, and will continue to do this. FF have no balls. We need them out now.
 

ellie08

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
12,325
There are a number of threads on the bord snip report, and this is not another one. I am a believer in stopping problems before they start. So, lets look at what brought us to this point.

FF are now going to attack the public sector, pitting private workers against public. They are trying to focus a debate on what should be cut. This is all a smokescreen. We need to examine why we are at this point, and we need to make sure we are never here again.

Fact : Our public services is one of the highest paid in the work. Why? Simple, we had an FF fueled housing bubble. People needed to be paid more to pay for somewhere to live. Who gave the massive payrises? Who was responsible for benchmarking? Who let the fire burn out of control?

Brian Cowen is responsible for this. He was the minister for finance who did nothing as the economy roared out of control. Our economy has now crashed, and Cowen was at the wheel, driving us full speed into a wall.

We are all being told to expect pain and to "put our shoulders to the wheel". Has anybody seen Seanie Fitz taking some pain? Muckey Fingers walked away from INBS with a €29 million. Most of the rest of the developers are not paying their loans. The TD's are not giving back the pensions die to "legal issues". Martin Cullen still flies around in helicopters. The gravy train is still running full steam ahead.

FF let their property friends run riot and that is what has caused this mess. Its not international factors.

FF and their cronies are to blame for this mess. Dont forget this. Ignore all the sideshows, deflections and spin. They must be punished accordingly.

Don't forget this disgraceful fact (see below) - they knew about the stamp duty loophole and refused to do anything about it. Ireland was the only country in Europe where housing estates were built with no schools, shops etc - thing NEEDED for a society. FF and property developers - the shame of Ireland.:

Monday 7th 08 - Irish independent
PROPERTY developers have seized on a stamp duty loophole leading to annual exchequer losses of up to half a billion euro, it emerged last night.

The tax avoidance devices are known to have cost the State €251m in 2006, but the figure could be over €400m if the most wealthy property dealers used the loophole.

The loophole has also been used in other areas such as residential property schemes, pubs, hospitals, hotels and local authorities through public private partnerships, pointing to concerns the losses could be rising significantly.

Data obtained by financial guru Eddie Hobbs under the Freedom of Information Act show that in a Revenue Commissioners' survey of just 100 developers in 2006 they found a €234m loss to the Exchequer.

The Revenue survey found that 40pc of all land deals by value exploited the loophole.

Goodbody Economic Consultants put the loss to the Exchequer slightly higher at €251m.

"The Revenue have pointed to their deep concerns about it because they felt that in their 2006 study, just on that year alone, that the loss to the Exchequer could be as high as €400m to €500m," Mr Hobbs told TV3's 'The Political Party' with Ursula Halligan.

The Department of Finance has previously insisted that the loss to the Exchequer of these "anti-avoidance schemes" amounts to €50m per annum.
 

Likely Lad

Active member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
242
I'm all for blaming FF, but the fact is we are in a mess and we (the people, the gov.) should be looking at ways to get out of the mess, not sitting around looking for people to blame. That can occur later
No one is sitting around looking for someone to blame, it is quite apparent to any intelligent individual who is to blame but if you want to cure a disease you also have to eliminate its cause. We are paying for it now yet again after the disaster of the 80's as the underlying problem of Fianna Fáil's politics was never eliminated.
 

Digout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
1,389
Ignore the smokescreen, deal with the source of the problem, FF are the source of the problem.
 

ellie08

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
12,325
Ahern did everything in his power to fuel the property speculation market in Ireland with ridiculous tax breaks for unsaleable developments, buying votes with daft benchmarking deals, decentralisation (and we all know who bought up land immediately before the locations were announced).
Don't forget paying himself the highest salary plus benefits in the world (apart from 1 or 2 dictators)!
 

Digout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
1,389
No one is sitting around looking for someone to blame, it is quite apparent to any intelligent individual who is to blame but if you want to cure a disease you also have to eliminate its cause. We are paying for it now yet again after the disaster of the 80's as the underlying problem of Fianna Fáil's politics was never eliminated.
FF are a parasite on this country. They suck the life out of it in order for themselves to survive. We need to kill them off ASAP.
 

Harmonica

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
5,797
FF know how to spend money. The idea of cost effectiveness is alien to them.

Could discuss all day the number of infrastructure projects with massive cost overruns paid for by the tax payer. Only in recent years did the idea of fixed price contracts with the contractor taking hits for cost overruns emerge.

I don;t begrudge public sector workers a fair wage but benchmarking has been the biggest con in my memory. The idea sounds great but the implementation was fraud.
 


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