Tommie Gorman and the Irish language

hollandia

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Yesterday, the boul' Tommie attempted to take SF to task on the requirement for an Irish language act prior to the resumption of the northern assembly. Unusually for Tommie, he managed to be both wrong and offensive, whet he normally only achieves one of these targets.

At a press conference in Belfast yesterday morning, the national broadcaster's northern editor took Michelle O'Neill to task about the number of Gaeilgeoirí in the previous Stormont executive.

His remarks came after Sinn Féin rejected Arlene Foster's proposal to bring forward legislation on language and culture in an agreed timeframe.

"What cognisance do you take of the fact that in that room of the DUP executive (sic) there wasn't one fluent Irish speaker – not one person who can speak the Irish language in a fluent way?" he said.

"In your own group (at the press conference) there are five of you here; none of you speak Irish regularly and maybe three, four, five of your 27 members in the defunct assembly... speak Irish fluently."
https://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/09/02/news/tommie-gorman-challenges-sinn-fe-in-over-its-gaeilgeoiri-numbers-1126274/

So, how does Tommie, an alleged professional journalist get it so wrong?

The "DUP executive"? Clearly not au fait with how power sharing works, or a calculated insult?

Why does Tommie think the number of fluent speakers is relevant? Why, because he's simply unable to see past the fact that this is something that SF are for an ILA, therefore all right thinking people should be against it...

The cognitive dissonance of the Conradh na Gaeilge press conference must have been a sight to behold, as the greens, alliance and PBP rowed in behind SF and the SDLP. Yes. That SDLP. It was heartening to see that all these parties got behind am ILA. proof, if any were still needed, that the language belongs to everyone, regardless of political affiliation. Can someone let Tommie know?
 
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between the bridges

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Quack...
 

Mick Mac

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Tommy doesn't necessarily buy into the idea that gaeilge is the Irish language.

Irish identity is fluid and the idea that one language now has some claim to be representative is anachronistic

More people in North Ireland use Polish ss their main language than irish though more have smatterings of itish than Polish.

But this just goes welcome your the new Irish and now we're going to tell you your language isn't part of ireland identity and instead this one is.
 

Cruimh

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Tell me Hollandia - why have SF abandoned the Saint Andrews Agreement - that they negotiated and signed up to?

It is pretty obvious what is going on. SF are desperate to distract from their failures - and they don't want Stormont back. That was a disaster for them - This invented grievance gets them off the parliamentary hook and at the same time allows them to play the Victim .... sending wenkers to picket the Bank HQ is about all they are good for.
 

hollandia

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Tommy doesn't necessarily buy into the idea that gaeilge is the Irish language.

Irish identity is fluid and the idea that one language now has some claim to be representative is anachronistic

More people in North Ireland use Polish ss their main language than irish though more have smatterings of itish than Polish.

But this just goes welcome your the new Irish and now we're going to tell you your language isn't part of ireland identity and instead this one is.
I'm sure that makes sense in your own head, but polish is not indigenous to this island. Great to see so many reading from the DUP manifesto though.
 

Levellers

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Unionists have gone cold on the idea of the Assembly since they lost their majority.
 

hollandia

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Tell me Hollandia - why have SF abandoned the Saint Andrews Agreement - that they negotiated and signed up to?

It is pretty obvious what is going on. SF are desperate to distract from their failures - and they don't want Stormont back. That was a disaster for them - This invented grievance gets them off the parliamentary hook and at the same time allows them to play the Victim .... sending wenkers to picket the Bank HQ is about all they are good for.
Ask them. It's fairly apparent from the lack of legislation for an ILA, that st Andrews isn't worth the paper it's written on. You can thank hmg for that. The fact that others have welshed on their commitments previously is why you have red lines now. It's not rocket science. And the bank in tralee is a red herring, being of no relevance to the lack of legislation in the north. The majority of mlas are now pro an. ILA. So, get this, no ILA, no assembly. That position is held by alliance, greens, pbp and the sdlp. You'd best suck it up, cruimh.
 

Mick Mac

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I'm sure that makes sense in your own head, but polish is not indigenous to this island. Great to see so many reading from the DUP manifesto though.
I don't think you get to define irishness as some form of indigenous frozen culture. Is there a time which a language need to be here to be accepted. Is it the same for people?

The DUP are the other side of the coin. Defining their culture on religion and flags.

Why not have a language act that also allows new Irish with sufficient numbers to enjoy the same rights.

A language act that respects gaeilge and Polish etc.

It's not a big ask or maybe it is.
 

cricket

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I believe Tommie Gorman was doing no more than asking questions that joe or mary public would ask.
 

hollandia

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I don't think you get to define irishness as some form of indigenous frozen culture. Is there a time which a language need to be here to be accepted. Is it the same for people?

The DUP are the other side of the coin. Defining their culture on religion and flags.

Why not have a language act that also allows new Irish with sufficient numbers to enjoy the same rights.

A language act that respects gaeilge and Polish etc.

It's not a big ask or maybe it is.
Tell me, can you link to the polish language pressure group in Ni, looking for recognition? When you migrate to a country you typically work in the language of that country. Perhaps you can point to the similar legislation south of the border?
 

GDPR

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Tell me, can you link to the polish language pressure group in Ni, looking for recognition? When you migrate to a country you typically work in the language of that country. Perhaps you can point to the similar legislation south of the border?
Actually, in my local hospital waiting room in Derry , there are leaflets in up to 15 languages concerning public services and a poster giving the numbers of qualified interpreters and translators.
 

former wesleyan

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"In your own group (at the press conference) there are five of you here; none of you speak Irish regularly and maybe three, four, five of your 27 members in the defunct assembly... speak Irish fluently."

So people who can't speak Irish are nonetheless willing to legislate that 10% of future Civil Service - An Státseirbhís - should be reserved for Irish speakers ?
 

Cruimh

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Ask them. It's fairly apparent from the lack of legislation for an ILA, that st Andrews isn't worth the paper it's written on. You can thank hmg for that.
No, don't blame HMG, blame SF for negotiating a sensible deal

The position is that it was agreed that at some unspecified time Westminster would legislate for some kind of ILA that would depend on an assessment of the language situation in Wales and the ROI.

Why haven't SF asked for an assessment of the language situation in Wales and the ROI? Because that HAS to happen before Westminster can pass the legislation that SF ceded to that parliament.

(Because the disaster in the ROI would scunner SF's plans is why)

Why did SF agree that Stormont wasn't the place to legislate?

Because the Shinners having pissed in the well couldn't expect the rest of us to drink the water.

Let's have a bit of honesty in this.

The Shinners are using this for leverage - they want to renegotiate but don't want to admit they screwed up at Saint Andrews. In the mean time if they do force an ILA through they will finally be able to claim some sort of success - as they have failed the nationalist electorate in everything else they promised. We were supposed to be in a United Ireland by now - or at the very least SF were to be in government on both sides of the border. They were embarrassed by how little they achieved in Stormont (Judge us by Casement , remember that? :D) The nationalist electorate's tribal loyalty was being sore tested as they saw just how little SF wre doing for their electorate - West Belfast is still a disaster area .... as are all the Republican strongholds.
 

hollandia

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Actually, in my local hospital waiting room in Derry , there are leaflets in up to 15 languages concerning public services and a poster giving the numbers of qualified interpreters and translators.
That's standard right across the UK and Ireland. But no legislative backing for it.
 

GDPR

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That's standard right across the UK and Ireland. But no legislative backing for it.
Nope, there is no law saying that someone who doesn't speak English has an absolute right to be served or accommodated in their own language.
 

hollandia

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No, don't blame HMG, blame SF for negotiating a sensible deal

The position is that it was agreed that at some unspecified time Westminster would legislate for some kind of ILA that would depend on an assessment of the language situation in Wales and the ROI.

Why haven't SF asked for an assessment of the language situation in Wales and the ROI? Because that HAS to happen before Westminster can pass the legislation that SF ceded to that parliament.

(Because the disaster in the ROI would scunner SF's plans is why)

Why did SF agree that Stormont wasn't the place to legislate?

Because the Shinners having pissed in the well couldn't expect the rest of us to drink the water.

Let's have a bit of honesty in this.

The Shinners are using this for leverage - they want to renegotiate but don't want to admit they screwed up at Saint Andrews. In the mean time if they do force an ILA through they will finally be able to claim some sort of success - as they have failed the nationalist electorate in everything else they promised. We were supposed to be in a United Ireland by now - or at the very least SF were to be in government on both sides of the border. They were embarrassed by how little they achieved in Stormont (Judge us by Casement , remember that? :D) The nationalist electorate's tribal loyalty was being sore tested as they saw just how little SF wre doing for their electorate - West Belfast is still a disaster area .... as are all the Republican strongholds.
Cruimh, your fellow loyal laptoppers have spent the last little while telling us all how this is an example of how hmg and the dup wiped the eye of SF. And I agree with them. Therefore, no ILA, no assembly. As currently, five parties don't trust the barstewards.
 

GDPR

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Yep, of course you can. In my day, it was generally recognised as a very handy way of getting a 4th A level under your belt (3 is the norm).
 


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