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tony blair comes out against uk leaving europe (but in favour of reform)


dancl2000

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Sep 17, 2011
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517
reform is kind of a no-brainer and not at all opposed to being part of europe. he cites uk business leaders as the biggest ally in the debate to keep the uk in europe (they are indeed already starting to come out to say the uncertainty around uk eu membership is a barrier to investment)

interestingly Tony Blair doesnt believe the majority of uk citizens are anti europe, instead he cites a vocal minority and an anti europe narrative in the british media. the vocal minority is something that exists everywhere, and even when they talk nonsense and are offensive it's probably a good thing they exist.

the media thing is more concerning as that distorts the debate. as we know british media is dominated by special business interests and the bbc, with its over sensitive view to criticism, is ineffective in its role to inform, partially successful at educating and out manouevered in its role to entertain.

I share this concern for ireland. english media is a mess and we're almost as bad. we have no national strategy to protect journalism or inform the public of matters in a high quality, but impartial way of relevant news. instead we have some clearly unfounded assumption that business tycoons who run the media for profit, who are in a position to use the media to push agendas favourable to the profitability of their investment portfolio, instead choose to run the media to protect the interests of an ordinary person trying to maintain quality of life for his family

Interview on Britain and Europe with Former Prime Minister Tony Blair - SPIEGEL ONLINE
 

Bea C

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24,280
Jesus, is he trying to work reverse psychology or what?
 

Dame_Enda

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Well the pro-Europe side is also "dominated by special interests".
 

Ryan Tubbs

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interestingly Tony Blair doesnt believe the majority of uk citizens are anti europe, instead he cites a vocal minority and an anti europe narrative in the british media.
The radical shift towards staying in the EU in UK opinion polls over the last 6 weeks would seem to back up this view.
 

Ribeye

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Neo-Corporatist war criminal is pro-EU,

Well I never:)
 

SilverSpurs

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reform is kind of a no-brainer and not at all opposed to being part of europe. he cites uk business leaders as the biggest ally in the debate to keep the uk in europe (they are indeed already starting to come out to say the uncertainty around uk eu membership is a barrier to investment)

interestingly Tony Blair doesnt believe the majority of uk citizens are anti europe, instead he cites a vocal minority and an anti europe narrative in the british media. the vocal minority is something that exists everywhere, and even when they talk nonsense and are offensive it's probably a good thing they exist.

the media thing is more concerning as that distorts the debate. as we know british media is dominated by special business interests and the bbc, with its over sensitive view to criticism, is ineffective in its role to inform, partially successful at educating and out manouevered in its role to entertain.

I share this concern for ireland. english media is a mess and we're almost as bad. we have no national strategy to protect journalism or inform the public of matters in a high quality, but impartial way of relevant news. instead we have some clearly unfounded assumption that business tycoons who run the media for profit, who are in a position to use the media to push agendas favourable to the profitability of their investment portfolio, instead choose to run the media to protect the interests of an ordinary person trying to maintain quality of life for his family

Interview on Britain and Europe with Former Prime Minister Tony Blair - SPIEGEL ONLINE
Well creating Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt will the backbone of the Yes campaign in 2017. It worked a treat in 1975 but I don't think it will be so effective this time as a number of key factors have changed.

1- The filibuster that denied anti-EEC campaigners the oxygen of publicity will be missing.
2- The Murdoch press which backed a yes in 1975 is now eurosceptic.
3- Europhiles made idiots of themselves over their F.U.D. regarding the euro.
4- The loony left won't be able to sink the No campaign as the main parties now have eurosceptic rumps + UKIP.
5- EU membership is costing the UK a fortune.
6- Mass immigration from eastern europe.
7- Many business leaders are now eurosceptic especially those representing S.M.E's

The BBC will try its best but unless David Cameron comes back with real concessions a Brixit looks very likely.
 

SilverSpurs

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The radical shift towards staying in the EU in UK opinion polls over the last 6 weeks would seem to back up this view.

The F.U.D. of europhiles has been getting a free pass lately. Once its challenged polls will swing back.
 

Ryan Tubbs

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The F.U.D. of europhiles has been getting a free pass lately. Once its challenged polls will swing back.
An insipid 6-week campaign by the pathetic group of europhiles in UK business and in Parliament managed to overturn 15 years of constant all-pervasive euroscepticism.

What does that tell you about the likelihood of the polls swinging back?
 

RobertW

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Feb 11, 2011
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The BBC will try its best but unless David Cameron comes back with real concessions a Brixit looks very likely.
Not going to happen. . . Cameron will campaign for a Yes vote to remain in the EU if still leader of the Conservative Party.

The Lib Dems and their supporters are strongly pro-EU as are the majority in the Labour Party.

There simply aren't enough No voters.
 

Ryan Tubbs

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Sep 20, 2012
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Not going to happen. . . Cameron will campaign for a Yes vote to remain in the EU if still leader of the Conservative Party
And if Cameron is deposed (boo-hoo), all of the alternative leaders - Johnson, Osborne, Gove, May, Hammond - are very likely to campaign for an "In" vote as well.

It's easy for hordes of braying backbench has-beens to campaign for a No vote, but it's not so easy for people who hold office, aspire to office, or have to take responsible decisions and deal with extremely unhappy business donors etc.
 

dancl2000

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Sep 17, 2011
Messages
517
Not going to happen. . . Cameron will campaign for a Yes vote to remain in the EU if still leader of the Conservative Party.

The Lib Dems and their supporters are strongly pro-EU as are the majority in the Labour Party.

There simply aren't enough No voters.
i dont see it lasting that long.. the uk will quickly see an impact to job creation. inward investment will prefer to go to eu countries which are not facing an in/out referendum 5 years down the road. uk companies themselves will probably hold off investment until there is a clearer outlook. less investment means less job creation and more unemployment, the public are very sensitive to this regardless how the media tries to spin it

once this effect manifests the uk govt will be under pressure to bring forward or cancel the referendum. probably this is what david cameron intended, the question of whether to keep / bring forward / cancel the eu referendum will dominate and probably decide the next uk general election. this is another example of the uk govt abusing the eu for domestic political benefit.

ireland will probably benefit investment wise as the uncertainty causes external investment into the uk to go instead to ireland (as the alternative english speaking eu country)
 

Ryan Tubbs

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The IDA and Enterprise Ireland, backed by the Government, should go on a naked unashamed Brit-bashing campaign to court all possible FDI and trade which might otherwise go to Britain over the next 5 years.

The Brits have created the uncertainty themselves. We should be fully entitled to take 100% advantage, and they can't possibly hold it against us.
 

Spanner Island

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Feb 22, 2011
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24,203
reform is kind of a no-brainer and not at all opposed to being part of europe. he cites uk business leaders as the biggest ally in the debate to keep the uk in europe (they are indeed already starting to come out to say the uncertainty around uk eu membership is a barrier to investment)
The problem with the EU is they won't stop, think, consult the people and then reform...

Instead they plough on regardless, taking us towards what the odious Peter Sutherland refers to as an 'undefined destination' and we're supposed to shut up and accept it without question...

The last few years have shown clearly how much influence small countries like Ireland have in the EU... and the truth is we have f*** all influence when the sh!t hits the fan.

interestingly Tony Blair doesnt believe the majority of uk citizens are anti europe, instead he cites a vocal minority and an anti europe narrative in the british media. the vocal minority is something that exists everywhere, and even when they talk nonsense and are offensive it's probably a good thing they exist.

the media thing is more concerning as that distorts the debate. as we know british media is dominated by special business interests and the bbc, with its over sensitive view to criticism, is ineffective in its role to inform, partially successful at educating and out manouevered in its role to entertain.
A bit harsh on the BBC there... Despite its current problems it's still the best broadcaster in the world by a long shot... imo...

I share this concern for ireland. english media is a mess and we're almost as bad. we have no national strategy to protect journalism or inform the public of matters in a high quality, but impartial way of relevant news.
The media need to get back to doing their jobs and quit obsessing about the internet and social media...

instead we have some clearly unfounded assumption that business tycoons who run the media for profit, who are in a position to use the media to push agendas favourable to the profitability of their investment portfolio, instead choose to run the media to protect the interests of an ordinary person trying to maintain quality of life for his family
I don't believe that for a second... and anyone who does needs to become a bit more cynical.
 

Spanner Island

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Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
24,203
The IDA and Enterprise Ireland, backed by the Government, should go on a naked unashamed Brit-bashing campaign to court all possible FDI and trade which might otherwise go to Britain over the next 5 years.

The Brits have created the uncertainty themselves. We should be fully entitled to take 100% advantage, and they can't possibly hold it against us.
I agree to an extent, but I wouldn't be too anti-UK... they are our largest trading partner by a long shot after all... and the reform of the EU which Cameron wants should be supported by everyone imo...

I'd also be wary of enticing too much short term inward investment because of what that would mean... i.e. an over dependence on foreign companies which can up sticks and move fast if/when Britain sorts herself out...

Ireland needs a more balanced economy without being over reliant on foreign companies or property or whatever... cos we all know where that leads to...

Loads of FDI attracted from the UK would possibly be temporary (particularly service industries which can move easily)... and would lead to house prices rising again... and consumer prices rising again... and all the rest of it including the unions inevitably looking for their pound of flesh...

And then before you know it we'd be back in a 'boom' which could bust just as fast as the last one if we allow ourselves to over depend on any sector etc.

I do sometimes wonder whether we've learned anything in this country at all...
 

Al.

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Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
1,622
reform is kind of a no-brainer and not at all opposed to being part of europe. he cites uk business leaders as the biggest ally in the debate to keep the uk in europe (they are indeed already starting to come out to say the uncertainty around uk eu membership is a barrier to investment)

interestingly Tony Blair doesnt believe the majority of uk citizens are anti europe, instead he cites a vocal minority and an anti europe narrative in the british media. the vocal minority is something that exists everywhere, and even when they talk nonsense and are offensive it's probably a good thing they exist.

the media thing is more concerning as that distorts the debate. as we know british media is dominated by special business interests and the bbc, with its over sensitive view to criticism, is ineffective in its role to inform, partially successful at educating and out manouevered in its role to entertain.

I share this concern for ireland. english media is a mess and we're almost as bad. we have no national strategy to protect journalism or inform the public of matters in a high quality, but impartial way of relevant news. instead we have some clearly unfounded assumption that business tycoons who run the media for profit, who are in a position to use the media to push agendas favourable to the profitability of their investment portfolio, instead choose to run the media to protect the interests of an ordinary person trying to maintain quality of life for his family

Interview on Britain and Europe with Former Prime Minister Tony Blair - SPIEGEL ONLINE
Sure, he's reliable. If he had gotten the job that went to van Rompuy (as was speculated, but they won't let a Brit ever have such a job), he would not be so "reform"-minded.
 

pippakin

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Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
9,665
To be honest I think if Tony Blair says do something the wisest course is to do the opposite of whatever he says.
 

General Urko

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Oct 24, 2012
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The problem, I have with the UK renegotiating terms is that ultimately (and as a large nation, the other biggies will most likely eventually entertain them) ordinary UK workers will suffer from lesser wages and conditions, while their bwonas will be laughing all the way to the bank, ever richer!
The UK was damn right on the Euro and the Austerity treaty, for sure!
 

True Republican

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Apr 3, 2008
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4,067
ukip are still in double figures in the opinion polls, closer to a general election i wonder how much of that support will go back to the tories. As for a referendum if labour get back into government in 2015 all bets are off.
 

blokesbloke

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Jan 13, 2011
Messages
23,296
Don't give a sh!te what that useless pr!ck thinks about anything.

UKIP should pay him to keep telling us to stay in, it'll get them a few more votes.
 

pippakin

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Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
9,665
The IDA and Enterprise Ireland, backed by the Government, should go on a naked unashamed Brit-bashing campaign to court all possible FDI and trade which might otherwise go to Britain over the next 5 years.

The Brits have created the uncertainty themselves. We should be fully entitled to take 100% advantage, and they can't possibly hold it against us.
That's right p1ss off our biggest customer because we've never been known to let little things like the facts get in the way of hatred have we. The idea that kicking someone when they're down is all we're good at is depressing.
 
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