Tragically, FG & Lab ditherers about to cause big rise in FF support.

bagel

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FF sits in the Dail with 17% core support.
FF are being allowed to remain in power by the failure of FG & Lab to force a 'confidence' motion.
It looks like FF will be able to pass its budget because FG & Lab will facilitate it.


If you are one of the 25% of the electorate who, according to the opinion polls, have withdrawn support from Zanu-FF, would you now be thinking:

FF must be doing something right if the Opposition aren't moving against them?

The Budget must be ok if the Opposition aren't promising to reject it in the Dail?

The Opposition mustn't have anything better to offer?

Ergo, there couldn't be any real difference between FF & the Opposition so.


If you're looking for an excuse to vote FF, any of the above options should suffice.

The electorate, being as they are, would probably decide to stick with FF so.

And who can blame them?


I'm afraid our dithering Opposition (with the exception of Sinn Fein) are about to gift FF much of the 25% its been loosing and boost their seat tally by an additional 20+.


Please correct me if i'm wrong, which i really hope i am.
 


realistic1

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FF sits in the Dail with 17% core support.
FF are being allowed to remain in power by the failure of FG & Lab to force a 'confidence' motion.
It looks like FF will be able to pass its budget because FG & Lab will facilitate it.


If you are one of the 25% of the electorate who, according to the opinion polls, have withdrawn support from Zanu-FF, would you now be thinking:

FF must be doing something right if the Opposition aren't moving against them?

The Budget must be ok if the Opposition aren't promising to reject it in the Dail?

The Opposition mustn't have anything better to offer?

Ergo, there couldn't be any real difference between FF & the Opposition so.


If you're looking for an excuse to vote FF, any of the above options should suffice.

The electorate, being as they are, would probably decide to stick with FF so.

And who can blame them?


I'm afraid our dithering Opposition (with the exception of Sinn Fein) are about to gift FF much of the 25% its been loosing and boost their seat tally by an additional 20+.


Please correct me if i'm wrong, which i really hope i am.
When it really comes down to it does it matter if we do vote for any of these Political parties? They are all part of this corrupt establishment and do not really want any change in Irish political life.
 

liffeynorth

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I might be wrong but I have the feeling that FG and Labour may want the current budget passed to shore up confidence in the EU/markets/whatever and then change certain elements when one if not both of them are in power next year.
 

Mitsui2

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It's a week since FF's lying, criminal ways led to the IMF coming in.

It's barely a day since FF's lying, criminal ways led to them landing us with a bailout that will cripple the country for a generation.

And already it's the opposition's fault?

Already we're at "Ah sure they're all the same"?

FFS!

I presume you guys will vote FF yourselves, since you seem to keen that the rest of us should.
 

droghedasouth

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May 10, 2007
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FF sits in the Dail with 17% core support.
FF are being allowed to remain in power by the failure of FG & Lab to force a 'confidence' motion.
It looks like FF will be able to pass its budget because FG & Lab will facilitate it.


If you are one of the 25% of the electorate who, according to the opinion polls, have withdrawn support from Zanu-FF, would you now be thinking:

FF must be doing something right if the Opposition aren't moving against them?

The Budget must be ok if the Opposition aren't promising to reject it in the Dail?

The Opposition mustn't have anything better to offer?

Ergo, there couldn't be any real difference between FF & the Opposition so.


If you're looking for an excuse to vote FF, any of the above options should suffice.

The electorate, being as they are, would probably decide to stick with FF so.

And who can blame them?


I'm afraid our dithering Opposition (with the exception of Sinn Fein) are about to gift FF much of the 25% its been loosing and boost their seat tally by an additional 20+.


Please correct me if i'm wrong, which i really hope i am.
You are wrong.

Opposition condemns deal - The Irish Times - Mon, Nov 29, 2010

The €85 billion EU-IMF bailout package for Ireland announced last night was roundly condemned by the Opposition parties who are now all likely to vote against the budget on December 7th.
 

Oldira1

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That 25% you are talking about have an option in Sinn Fein. Let them use it.
 

meriwether

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And what if the EU/IMF told you that the budget had to be passed?

What should FG and Lab do then? Ignore them?

And if so, what of the consequences regarding funding (we are not, nor can we get get back into the funding market) and the deficit?
 

Hewson

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It's all about the timing. The opposition will probably facilitate the passing of the budget since they won't be in a position to set their own budget after an election. Our übermeisters are watching and don't want any pot holes dug in the road to recovery.

Colonel Blink and his Ruinous Rats will get the boot early in the new year. FG and Labour will have to implement the provisions of the budget after that. Regardless of what happens, serious cutbacks on public spending are on the way. It can only be hoped that any new administration will turn a new leaf in Irish politics and start those cuts right at the top.

Any other course of action would be tantamount to betrayal on the double.
 

bagel

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It's a week since FF's lying, criminal ways led to the IMF coming in.

It's barely a day since FF's lying, criminal ways led to them landing us with a bailout that will cripple the country for a generation.

And already it's the opposition's fault?

Already we're at "Ah sure they're all the same"?

FFS!

I presume you guys will vote FF yourselves, since you seem to keen that the rest of us should.

You're missing my point.
If the Opposition don't bury Zanu-FF right now, then it'll come back to bite us in the ass.
The longer the Opposition dithers, the better for Zanu.
Simples!
 

smitchy2

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I am hoping that the budget is passed as it will mean that FF will at least have to take another large chunk of responsibility for the damage that they have caused.

I am presuming that this will be done without the oppositions help. They just need either Rae or Lowry. It think Healy Rae is onside now that OAP rates have not been hit.

I would expect FF to be even below 17% in the next poll.

Labour and FG have the ability to score some own goals on the way to the election but they should be pleased enough with FF taking the full flak of the budget and let an election happen next March.
 

droghedasouth

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You're missing my point.
If the Opposition don't bury Zanu-FF right now, then it'll come back to bite us in the ass.
The longer the Opposition dithers, the better for Zanu.
Simples!
Actually, it is FF who have mis-timed events.
They planned a spring election with an empty kitty as a poson pill for FG and the LP.
Now they have got caught in charge when the IMF rode into town and Clowen had to sign on the dotted line.
 

bagel

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I read that article several hours ago.
Mere speculative page filling by a journalist/reporter.
Nothing to substantiate it.
Correct me if i'm wrong, neither FG nor Lab have come out today & explicitly stated they'd vote against the budget or move a confidence motion.

No offence to you but die-hard party supporters jumping to their party's defence here in this thread need to pressurise their party to act now.
I'm convinced this is our final chance to save our country.
 

meriwether

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I'm convinced this is our final chance to save our country.
That chance is long gone.

If its not this deal, it will be a tweaked deal.

The banks are insolvent, the deficit is unmanagable, external help is needed and this will need to be paid back.

A lower rate and write downs on bank debt would be great, for sure. But nothing is enough to 'save us' bar free money. And we're not getting that.
 

bagel

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And what if the EU/IMF told you that the budget had to be passed?

What should FG and Lab do then? Ignore them?

And if so, what of the consequences regarding funding (we are not, nor can we get get back into the funding market) and the deficit?
Surely you realise that the EU/IMF are in the business of plundering us for many years to come.
Other EU States can borrow money for 2.5% interest & lend it to us (as aid) for 5.8%, like we did in the case of Greece but we borrowed at 5.5% to loan to Greece at 5%.
The big european banks are about to make a killing on us, all over again, & leave us destitute.
Thats neither aid nor a lifeline.

You're a young man who didn't live through the hardships of the late '70s and all of the '80s.
We couldn't afford a tyre for our cars.
Remoulds were almost out of our price range.
I could go on & on.

We have enough funds to tide us over while we bring down the Government, elect a new Government, re-enter negotiations with IMF/EU & bring in a budget.
We must not allow the IMF/EU to dictate to us at this critical time.

The Opposition must stop hiding behind IMF/EU skirts and instead rescue our Nation.

Is it the case that if the Opposition sit back now & allow Zanu & IMF/EU to close the deal, then when the Opposition get into Government they'll have little to do because our soverignty will have already been ceded?
Its no good giving excuses to the people in 3 months time that their hands are tied.
We need them to act now so that they'll enter Government & 'bail-out' negotiations with some chance of achieving something for the people.

Outgoing TD's retiring at the next election will be held in high esteem forever if they speak up now.
For some of them, it may be their final opportunity to achieve something worthwhile for their lifetime in public office.

I'm rambling on, aren't i?
I'll put a sock in it now.
 

hiding behind a poster

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:roll: How many more of these stupid threads are we going to have?
 

bagel

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Folks, in response to 3 of the above posts, up until two days ago i firmly believed we should allow FF to introduce lots more hardship before the election so that the electorate will see, once & for all, what Zanu-FF really are.
The situation has become critical over the past couple of days.
If Zanu are allowed to sell our souls to IMF/EU now (right now, today, this week, whatever) and get away with it by passing a budget, then we're destroyed for decades, perhaps generations, to come.
NPRF committed to Anglo et al.
Are we crazy or what?
Don't people realise that IMF/EU won't give us a shilling until we plough the NPRF into the banks first?
You have to hand it to Zanu, they're about to bury us forever & they've lulled us into being lethargic about it to the extent that we're reduced to lambs to the slaughter, and the Opposition is meekly standing by.
Not to worry, the Opposition can always blame it on the Regulators, can't they?
 

bagel

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:roll: How many more of these stupid threads are we going to have?
I don't know.
As long as you're prepared to post in them, i suppose we'll keep on starting them.
What would you prefer we debate about?
If you tell me, i promise i'll do my utmost to accomodate you, being the nice inoffensive guy that i am.
 

setanta

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:roll: How many more of these stupid threads are we going to have?
I agree. The script seems to be ... (a) why are the opposition so cr@p, (b) they're therefore all the same, and (c) you might as well vote FF.

I've posted before on Labour's position on thd government and its budget. Let me just spell it out very clearly again. Labour will not be supporting thd FF/GRN budget. That isn't gonna happen. Labour wants an election NOW, not after the budget, nor after the Finance Bill, not when the Greens finally summon up the courage to break ranks with FF. We want an election NOW!

The question is how to force one. Eamon Gilmore has been given the authority by the Parliamentary Labour Party to call a no-confidence (NC) vote at a time of his choosing. The issue with a NC vote is to ensure that you table it at the time that it will cause the maximum damage to the government, rather than simply act to solidify their support.

Some SF supporters are preening thmeselves that they have a NC moton submited and are therefore first out of the traps on this. However, SF are simply throwing shapes. It's not the NC motion that is first proposed, but the one that is successfully timed to oust the government that is teh demonstration of leadership and political skill. SF don't get that and instead are reduced, as so often before, to posture-politics.

I know SF are new to democratic politics ... they should now watch and learn. Remember these neophytes got scammed by FF into supporting the blank cheque for the banks two years ago and only later dioscovered what a mistake they had made. Their record in Dáil Éireann is, to say the least, underwhelming.
 


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