Travellers disgrace their community again


KingKane

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A we've seen from Limerick, it only takes a few violent and bullying people to leave a trail of destruction. People who live a lot outside and move around a lot are very visible. With Travellers, if there are some high profile people who are in your face, that is who everone is aware of. Everyone is tarred with the same brush. Travellers aren't all the same. There are probably some Travellers who post here and people you know who you aren't aware are Travellers.
Limerick is bad example for you to use as the families involved are traveller families! Just not very mobile travellers anymore.
 

imokyrok

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Two female members of my family were attacked on the street by traveller women in two separate incidences in two seperate towns. It was the only time either has been attacked thankfully. But even with that I would be loathe to tar an entire community with the same brush. No more than the actions of the Dundun family are representative of the people of Limerick or the gangs in Clondalkin are representative of the people of Clondalkin.
 

Gruffalo

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Limerick is bad example for you to use as the families involved are traveller families! Just not very mobile travellers anymore.
If you are coming out with that then we are all travellers. It is how we all started off i.e. as nomads.
 

Eorna

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I suppose noone here has ever seen a group of "settled" people behave like scum?

There are nasty travellers, there are nasty "settled" people.
That is true, but it is not like for like. Remember the riots in Mullingar, between the Nevins and the Wards. There was 200 people involved, there are approx. 20k travellers in the state, so that is 1% of the group population. When did you last hear of a riot involving 43000 settled people. The number of "nasty" travellers is unfortunately very high as a percentage of the group, whilst only one in a hundred settled people might be a scumbag.
 
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They disgrace thier community??? Their whole community IS a disgrace. People try to make out that the Travellors are victims of social exclusion and racism. Although I fail to see any racism since they are supposed to be Irish so Irish people being prejudiced to travellers cant actually by racism. Then again, prejudism is not as headline grabbing is it.

It is rare to see a traveller as a decent human being. I've encountered a few in my time and none of them really enamoured me to their "way of life" or them as a human being. They constantly try to get the rest of us to accomodate them and their ways, however, they are the ones who should try to assimilate into our society instead of keeping themselves on the fringes all the time. If there are factions of the travelloer community worthy of what they strive for, then they should sort the rest of their own community out. Oh no of course, they couldn't possible dream of doing that, could they?
Here Here!
 

Eorna

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If you are coming out with that then we are all travellers. It is how we all started off i.e. as nomads.
The McCarthys are a traveller family, what are you on about nomads?.
 

KingKane

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If you are coming out with that then we are all travellers. It is how we all started off i.e. as nomads.
What are you on about? It's not like they stopped travelling a few thousand years ago before the time of St. Patrick. The main families in the feuds in Limerick are traveller families sure everyone knows that. Though of course it's the one aspect of the problem that the likes of Vincent Browne will never mention.
 

imokyrok

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What are you on about? It's not like they stopped travelling a few thousand years ago before the time of St. Patrick. The main families in the feuds in Limerick are traveller families sure everyone knows that. Though of course it's the one aspect of the problem that the likes of Vincent Browne will never mention.
I have to admit I didn't know that. I've never heard that alluded to in any radio discussion on the matter. Are you sure?
 

youngdan

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What a load of bollox. Why don't ye open a pub and serve knackers all day if ye think they are gentle folk. Take yeer heads out of yeer arses. A slap of a slashhook might knock some sense into ye.

Nobody can run a good house when the law demands every maggot to be served.
 

Cato

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A social worker, who worked with travelers, and myself once got into a 'discussion' about Travelers. During the discussion she stated, with a straight face, that travelers should not have to pay tax as it is not part of their culture. I was a little loss for words, but eventually retorted that the other side of that argument was that they ought then not to receive any of the benefits of the state, i.e. health, education, subsidized places to life, or the protection of the law.

She said no, they should still get these things and more - because the settled community owed them that.
 

youngdan

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What are you on about? It's not like they stopped travelling a few thousand years ago before the time of St. Patrick. The main families in the feuds in Limerick are traveller families sure everyone knows that. Though of course it's the one aspect of the problem that the likes of Vincent Browne will never mention.
I am shocked to hear this as well KingKane, you must be mistaken.
 

MsAnneThrope

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I'm from a small country town originally and I'm a frequent visitor back there. I remember, as a child, travellers calling to our house and the other locals offering all kinds of services - gardening/farm assistance, metalwork, sharpening tools, general labour services. Some also offered bargain items for sale. Not being sure of the origins or whether they were factory rejects we politely declined. But they were part of the community and there usually was a presence within a few miles of the town. No laws were broken that I ever recall. I'm talking the 1970s here. There was no tension and they generally kept to themselves. There certainly was no crime or even drunken brawls that I ever heard of. The travellers back then also kept their sites quite tidy, certainly by today's standards.

Today it is a different story. There are three times the number of caravans now out the road. They never call to offer legitimate services to any of the locals any more. But there has been a huge surge in crime within a 20 mile radius of their location. Entire houses have been emptied and stripped of literally everything, down to the wiring and sockets, while the owners were away. Some of the houses were vacant 'celtic tiger' second/investment homes. Some of the travellers were charged and the stolen items retrieved but have never appeared in court. In a few houses entire railings and metal gates were removed in the middle of the night. Crimes like this require planning, manpower and skill.

Theft of family pets, mostly dogs, has increased substantially too. Farm animals have also disappeared as has farm machinery and tools. People no longer let the dog out the front alone any more. Their own animals, mainly horses and dogs, look in extremely poor condition and malnourished with ribs showing prominently in several of them.

Elderly people have been robbed when one traveller would come to the door and engage them in lengthy conversation while another entered through the rear door and stole money and valuables. All over in a couple of minutes. Fortunately there has not been a violent robbery yet.

Their sites are a bomb-site literally with tons of rubbish and scrap metal strewn everywhere. Small kids play unsupervised near and alongside a busy road. I know of two cases where untethered horses collided with passing cars resulting in the death of the horses and the hospitalisation of the drivers.

Yet in the midst of all this rubbish you'll see new, high-powered cars and 4x4s. Some of the caravans are state-of-the-art and I'm sure don't come cheap. It is also well known, including to the Gardai, that several of the current travellers are substantial drug dealers not just locally but on a provincial if not national basis. They also sell large quantities of illegal alcohol and cigarettes. Quite openly in fact at certain fairs.

So I am sorry if I offend anyone but this lifestyle and the blatant criminality of some of its members is just not on. Gardai seem powerless (and if you ask me uninterested) in tackling the criminality of the travellers as it is widely known how difficult it is to serve a summons on a transient community.

I know these problems also exist among the 'settled' community but it is a lot easier to bring them to justice if caught. Many travellers, when the law is closing in on them, just jump town and carry on their illegal ways elsewhere. They need to be treated the same as any criminal, traveller or settled, and a clear message given to them that they cannot get away with this behaviour.
 

youngdan

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I am still trying to remember the name of the Sligo County Councillor who wanted to deball the lot of them in the 70s
 

bluefish

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I fail to understand why travellers still receive Dole.

Surely they dont look for work, so why are they not dragged into welfare officers to explain what steps they have taken to find work.

Why Irish governments pander to this community is beyond me.
 

Eorna

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I'm from a small country town originally and I'm a frequent visitor back there. I remember, as a child, travellers calling to our house and the other locals offering all kinds of services - gardening/farm assistance, metalwork, sharpening tools, general labour services. Some also offered bargain items for sale. Not being sure of the origins or whether they were factory rejects we politely declined. But they were part of the community and there usually was a presence within a few miles of the town. No laws were broken that I ever recall. I'm talking the 1970s here. There was no tension and they generally kept to themselves. There certainly was no crime or even drunken brawls that I ever heard of. The travellers back then also kept their sites quite tidy, certainly by today's standards.

Today it is a different story. There are three times the number of caravans now out the road. They never call to offer legitimate services to any of the locals any more. But there has been a huge surge in crime within a 20 mile radius of their location. Entire houses have been emptied and stripped of literally everything, down to the wiring and sockets, while the owners were away. Some of the houses were vacant 'celtic tiger' second/investment homes. Some of the travellers were charged and the stolen items retrieved but have never appeared in court. In a few houses entire railings and metal gates were removed in the middle of the night. Crimes like this require planning, manpower and skill.

Theft of family pets, mostly dogs, has increased substantially too. Farm animals have also disappeared as has farm machinery and tools. People no longer let the dog out the front alone any more. Their own animals, mainly horses and dogs, look in extremely poor condition and malnourished with ribs showing prominently in several of them.

Elderly people have been robbed when one traveller would come to the door and engage them in lengthy conversation while another entered through the rear door and stole money and valuables. All over in a couple of minutes. Fortunately there has not been a violent robbery yet.

Their sites are a bomb-site literally with tons of rubbish and scrap metal strewn everywhere. Small kids play unsupervised near and alongside a busy road. I know of two cases where untethered horses collided with passing cars resulting in the death of the horses and the hospitalisation of the drivers.

Yet in the midst of all this rubbish you'll see new, high-powered cars and 4x4s. Some of the caravans are state-of-the-art and I'm sure don't come cheap. It is also well known, including to the Gardai, that several of the current travellers are substantial drug dealers not just locally but on a provincial if not national basis. They also sell large quantities of illegal alcohol and cigarettes. Quite openly in fact at certain fairs.

So I am sorry if I offend anyone but this lifestyle and the blatant criminality of some of its members is just not on. Gardai seem powerless (and if you ask me uninterested) in tackling the criminality of the travellers as it is widely known how difficult it is to serve a summons on a transient community.

I know these problems also exist among the 'settled' community but it is a lot easier to bring them to justice if caught. Many travellers, when the law is closing in on them, just jump town and carry on their illegal ways elsewhere. They need to be treated the same as any criminal, traveller or settled, and a clear message given to them that they cannot get away with this behaviour.
Excellent post. Cactusflower needs to walk in your shoes for a while.
 

Beau

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I am not shocked but sickened by some of the unsavoury comments that have been made here.

I teach traveller teens and I'm involved in traveller's associations which seek to find employment for members of this community.

How much damage is caused every single weekend by drunken members of the settled community?

How many people from the settled community fight every weekend?

Why is it that some of you seem to see it as logical to deduct from this incident that all travellers behave the way that this particular party have behaved when you clearly do not apply that same "logic" to the settled community?

*shakes head*
 

anewbeginning

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I think there has been a tolerance of Travaller scumbaggery for years and when they trash a place and destroy nice areas with rubbish, its somehow seen as part of their 'culture'.

However there is a scumbag element in evey part of society. We all know scumbags. There are scumbags who live in D4, there are scumbags who live on our street, scumbags who are our neighbours and work in the same office or on the boards of Companies or politicians. Some of our relatives are even scumbags, hard as it is to admit it.

Being a scumbag is not limited to the travelling community. While they often wreck the place and pillage and steal to make a living, its small fry to some of the white collar crime that's being going on in this country lately.

But the occassional scumbag traveller is vilified by the media, probably rightly, while the white collar criminal is lauded and called a great entrepreneur and someone we should all admire by the very same media.
 

youngdan

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I am not shocked but sickened by some of the unsavoury comments that have been made here.

I teach traveller teens and I'm involved in traveller's associations which seek to find employment for members of this community.

How much damage is caused every single weekend by drunken members of the settled community?

How many people from the settled community fight every weekend?

Why is it that some of you seem to see it as logical to deduct from this incident that all travellers behave the way that this particular party have behaved when you clearly do not apply that same "logic" to the settled community?

*shakes head*
Lucky for you they wern't deballed in the 70s then
 

KingKane

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kingkane
I am not shocked but sickened by some of the unsavoury comments that have been made here.

I teach traveller teens and I'm involved in traveller's associations which seek to find employment for members of this community.

How much damage is caused every single weekend by drunken members of the settled community?

How many people from the settled community fight every weekend?

Why is it that some of you seem to see it as logical to deduct from this incident that all travellers behave the way that this particular party have behaved when you clearly do not apply that same "logic" to the settled community?

*shakes head*
Beau, there is no such thing as the settled community.

The question you ask shouldn't be what numbers but what proportion are involved in violent and destructive behaviour towards others and themselves. But the courts in Ireland don't even record whether defendants are travellers so how will anyone know. I don't believe that all travellers behave in this way, I do believe that a greater % do and that it is more tolerated than it should be.
 

bluefish

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I must admit, that some travellers who have been resettled by the local councils are good decent people, glad to get out of the hell hole they were in.

I think to an extent problems were created by the grouping of travellers together in compacted areas.

And of course its always the troublemakers that get the headlines.

I think the best course of action is to spread the travellers more around communities, instead of bunching them up altogether.

In effect we are creating Ghettos of travellers in halting sites and council estates.
 
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