Travellers disgrace their community again


Eorna

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Nov 24, 2008
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I am not shocked but sickened by some of the unsavoury comments that have been made here.

I teach traveller teens and I'm involved in traveller's associations which seek to find employment for members of this community.

How much damage is caused every single weekend by drunken members of the settled community?

How many people from the settled community fight every weekend?

Why is it that some of you seem to see it as logical to deduct from this incident that all travellers behave the way that this particular party have behaved when you clearly do not apply that same "logic" to the settled community?

*shakes head*
The % of trouble makers in the traveller community is very high. Probably half of the travellers that have come to my home town, have robbed and ran riot. I have lost count of the time that travellers have kicked off in the pub, people have just been worn down by the constant thuggery from a large segment of the traveller population. I presume many travellers would feel the exact same way as most of us here would.

They are not a separate race, or ethnic group, they are Irish people, they should be bound by the same laws as the rest of us, basically respect for other people, not to resort to violence, and no more stealing.
 

Hewson

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Apr 29, 2009
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Take a look at the houses some of the semi-settled travellers have in Rathkeale, Co. Limerick. Southfork Ranch looks like a tool shed compared to the pillared, grotesque insults to good taste. Outside you'll find a shiny collection of BMW 4x4s, Mercs and, of course, the ubiquitous Hiace (for the night shift).

Not all travellers cause trouble or get wrapped up in crime, but trouble seems to follow a large percentage of their number wherever they decide to drop anchor for a week or two. And when they do cause trouble nobody does it better. If some settled lout is dumped from a bar for misbehaving chances are he'll make his way home after a tirade of verbal abuse. But the travellers will call up their reserves and proceed to make matchwood of the place. They really have vicious tempers, made all the worse by abusive upbringings and a total unwillingness to see things from anybody else's point of view.

It's wrong to condemn them all for the behaviour of some, but they really need to practise seeing things from the point of view of people who don't share, or like, their lifestyle. When they move on from wherever they've camped the amount of junk, litter and dirt left behind is sickening.

But open your mouth to criticise them these days and you're likely to have the Equality Authority wagging a finger in your face and threatening proceedings for incitement to hatred.

Ah, the joys of living in a politically correct and wholly equal society.
 

Tommy Tayto

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Apr 26, 2009
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Well said Ms. Anne. However you are mistaken to say there has not been a violent robbery yet. There have been numerous incidents of old farmers and the like being tied up and beaten, sometimes killed. The dogs on the street know it is gangs of marauding travellers.
I know a good few travellers, in particular one of the 'old stocks' called Mike. He was going on one day about how disgusted he is with his scumbag grand kids and the way the new generation of travellers have turned out. He said his grandfather would turn in his grave if he saw the carry on by them.
I think it's fair to say that the majority of them at this stage are involved in criminality and anti social behavior. Ever had the experience where a load of caravans pull up into your town, park illegally, and demand a thousand euro per person to leave the area? It happens every summer in my neck of the woods.
The question is, what can we actually do about it? I would suggest a petition to reverse the discrimination law that allows them to sue pubs that refuse to serve them. The law was only brought in by lawyers looking to make a few exta bob at the expense of decent people.
 

Beau

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They are not a separate race, or ethnic group, they are Irish people, they should be bound by the same laws as the rest of us, basically respect for other people, not to resort to violence, and no more stealing.

Aren't they fighting to be recognised by the EU as a unique ethnic group?

They don't share our history, customs and mentality so in fact we are two separate communities.

I agree that they need to respect members of both communities and acknowlege the Law but they tend to feel a justified [imo] disdain for us because of our treatment of them.

I'm not saying that what they're doing is okay or even acceptable, but we need to develop a relationship with travellers whereby we actually trust them enough to employ them and allow them the full rights and responsibilities of all Irish citizens, rather than looking down on them and waiting for them to step out of line to reinforce our preconceived notions of what a true traveller is.

I can see an enormous divide between us and them and that is why their own culture continues to strive because they simply cannot merge that culture with ours, they are a constant outsider.
 

anewbeginning

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Jan 20, 2009
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they tend to feel a justified [imo] disdain for us because of our treatment of them.
What treatment of them? Most have been given free houses, free education, free dole, free child allowance for the 10 or so kids on average they have, and usually non means tested, free everything.

9 times out of 10 they decide to turn their backs on education for their children or on good houses or on anything approaching civilisation because it's their 'culture' to do so.

Oh but aren't we treating them terribly.

Most settled people respect everyone, including travellers, they don't invade other people's property, they don't wreck houses. A lot of Travellers show no respect to anyone. So please stop blaming settled people for this. If Travellers cannot take responsibility for their actions they will keep repeating it. And that is the key, making Travellers responsible for their actions, instead of acting like children with no responsibilities.
 

Eorna

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Nov 24, 2008
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Disdain is one thing, if it was just disdain, people would have no trouble with that. To develop a relationship where we trust them would be great, but it is a case of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me again, and again and again etc"

The idea that travellers are a unique ethnic group, is frankly insulting to them, with scant evidence to back it up. They are Irish people, just like me. They share the same background and history as we all do.

I presume that you maybe didn't grow up in an area, that had travellers coming and going, people are frightened of them, and with good reason.
 

powderfinger

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Limerick is bad example for you to use as the families involved are traveller families! Just not very mobile travellers anymore.
Those lads are free spirits KingKane.They are highly mobiled and dogged.Not even the bars of Wheatfield can halt their gallop.
Conor Lally had an article on their customs and traditions in the Irish Times.
Tough battle against a climate of fear - The Irish Times - Sat, Apr 11, 2009
The Irish Times has learned that Limerick gangland figures effectively control three landings in Wheatfield Prison. They pressure other inmates to hold the phones in their cells so if found the Limerick criminals face no consequences.
Recently one prison officer had to be transferred because the Limerick criminals were threatening him to supply the address of a prisoner who had refused to store a phone and whose family the gang members wanted to attack as revenge.
 
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142857

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Dec 19, 2008
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Subsidising a community and the politically correct necessity of some to be appalled at anything but ENTITLEMENT and SPECIAL TREATMENT and DOUBLE STANDARDS do nothing in the long run but engender both a lack of incentive in the traveller community, foster a sense of entitlement and resentment, and bigotry outside of it against travellers.

No special treatment for being a traveller, no subsidising people who aren't looking for work, let them obey the same laws as the rest of us, and for God's sake, when someone commits a violent crime throw them in jail for a long time.

If this can't be done the divide between travellers and the rest of us will grow more and more; and may escalate - given the frightening economic times - into something nobody wants

And to all social workers who are working hard with folk in poverty and difficult situations: Good on ya.
 

MsAnneThrope

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Well said Ms. Anne. However you are mistaken to say there has not been a violent robbery yet. There have been numerous incidents of old farmers and the like being tied up and beaten, sometimes killed.
I meant just in my local town Tommy, but yes I'm aware of other incidents around the country where this has unfortunately happened.

In the 21st Century it is unacceptable for policy on Travellers to be designed by settled people - Pavee Point
Here's to self rule. This guy has a site dedicated to the issue but it looks like he hasn't updated since the Nally case.
 

Beau

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What treatment of them? Most have been given free houses, free education, free dole, free child allowance for the 10 or so kids on average they have, and usually non means tested, free everything.

9 times out of 10 they decide to turn their backs on education for their children or on good houses or on anything approaching civilisation because it's their 'culture' to do so.

Oh but aren't we treating them terribly.

Most settled people respect everyone, including travellers, they don't invade other people's property, they don't wreck houses. A lot of Travellers show no respect to anyone. So please stop blaming settled people for this. If Travellers cannot take responsibility for their actions they will keep repeating it. And that is the key, making Travellers responsible for their actions, instead of acting like children with no responsibilities.


They are given the very same benefits of any unemployed person, the only difference is that they cannot seek employment because of discrimination.

What treatment of them? Just read this thread; it is quite revealing of people's true feelings [which they express openly] towards travellers.

I'm sure that if we took a look at statistics we would find that people from both communities break the law, steal things, vandal property and so on yet we don't class all of these criminals together as second class citizens yet we do so in relation to travellers only.

When I was in school, if a student misbehaved they were told to go sit in the corner with the traveller kids who were completely ignored. I am currently teaching one teen who is illiterate - please explain to me how that can be justified after 8 years in the education system?

I'm not blaming the settled community, we are all responsible for the lack of a positive relationship between the two. I am merely stating that it is this ill feeling towards them that ensures the survival of their own separate culture and identity because their "us and them" mentality is fueled by our comtempt.
 

142857

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A social worker, who worked with travelers, and myself once got into a 'discussion' about Travelers. During the discussion she stated, with a straight face, that travelers should not have to pay tax as it is not part of their culture. I was a little loss for words, but eventually retorted that the other side of that argument was that they ought then not to receive any of the benefits of the state, i.e. health, education, subsidized places to life, or the protection of the law.

She said no, they should still get these things and more - because the settled community owed them that.
This attitude is widespread. The attitude of people like this fosters a false sense of entitlement, and fosters bigotry against travellers. It is extremely dangerous and hurtful to both sides to a massive degree.
 

Beau

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Disdain is one thing, if it was just disdain, people would have no trouble with that. To develop a relationship where we trust them would be great, but it is a case of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me again, and again and again etc"

The idea that travellers are a unique ethnic group, is frankly insulting to them, with scant evidence to back it up. They are Irish people, just like me. They share the same background and history as we all do.

I presume that you maybe didn't grow up in an area, that had travellers coming and going, people are frightened of them, and with good reason.

If you don't believe that they are a separate ethnic group with their own unique history and customs then you clearly do not know much about the travelling community.
 

142857

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They are given the very same benefits of any unemployed person, the only difference is that they cannot seek employment because of discrimination.

What treatment of them? Just read this thread; it is quite revealing of people's true feelings [which they express openly] towards travellers.

I'm sure that if we took a look at statistics we would find that people from both communities break the law, steal things, vandal property and so on yet we don't class all of these criminals together as second class citizens yet we do so in relation to travellers only.
Of course. And who do you think would be breaking the law in a much higher proportion?

The answer does not justify painting all travellers with the one brush, but it goes a long way towards explaining, for example, why when a bunch of travellers come to my village, the risk/reward of leaving the pub open is quite a real conundrum.

When I was in school, if a student misbehaved they were told to go sit in the corner with the traveller kids who were completely ignored. I am currently teaching one teen who is illiterate - please explain to me how that can be justified after 8 years in the education system?

I'm not blaming the settled community, we are all responsible for the lack of a positive relationship between the two. I am merely stating that it is this ill feeling towards them that ensures the survival of their own separate culture and identity because their "us and them" mentality is fueled by our comtempt.
That bigotry against traveller kids in your school was appalling.

How did much of this ill feeling arise? Paddy didn't close the pubs here 20 years ago when caravans showed up, but he does now. What changed? It wasn't Paddy.
 

142857

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"I'm sure that if we took a look at statistics we would find that people from both communities break the law, steal things, vandal property and so on yet we don't class all of these criminals together as second class citizens yet we do so in relation to travellers only."

I class any violent criminal as a ********************ty citizen.
 

142857

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Puh-lease!

:roll:
So you don't have a response to ANYTHING I've said, but you still want to patronise what I say? :confused:

He's held the pub for God knows how long. 20 years ago travellers in the town used to come more often, trade with everyone and do services for us. The pub never closed.

Now the pub closes every time a load of caravans showed up. Would you like me to tell you what changed, given that you couldn't figure it out for yourself?

Good. The travelling community became much more violent, over time, when it visited our town. (mostly in the summer) This is a fact. It became a warzone at times, and the pub got several thrashings.

Closing the pub is simply the pragmatic thing to do - it's logic is completely independent of "hatred", and independent of judging any individual as a person. (For the same reason I refuse to walk around in Ballyfermot on my own for very long when I'm up there with mates and relatives, yet I have no problem walking around dalkey I'm not judging any individual, I'd judging quite sensibly my own risk of getting clobbered)

Paddy closes the pub when caravans pull up, because if he doesn't, the risk/reward scenario is far too precarious. He's not making any statement on the individuals in caravans. It is from pragmatic experience that nowadays it is too risky in this particular area to do so when that situation arises. The chances are too high (maybe one out of every several times) that his pub will erupt into uncontrollable violence.

It has nothing to do with his opinions on the travelling community. It has everything to do with risk/reward of leaving the pub open. Yes, some bigoted people would be certain that it could only possibly be because Paddy is hateful against travellers; which is logical anal seepage.

Can you respond to me, or would you prefer just dismissing everything I said?

Why is violence in the travelling community risen so sharply? It's tragic, and surely something can be done about it that doesn't just make the situation worse in the long run.
 
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