• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Travellers' rights: the blindspot in our backyard?


Shqiptar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
6,309
Many Irish activists and politicians have achieved international prominence over the years by taking on certain human rights causes in another country. The West Bank and Gaza would spring to mind at the moment. East Timor was another cause celebre back in the late 1990s.

It's not my aim to attack well-intentioned people who take on a cause with a wholly altruistic motivation but I have sometimes wondered: shouldn't we be looking a lot closer to home at one particular minority here in Ireland? I'm referring to the Travellers.

The table below compares certain demographic statistics of Irish Travellers with those of people in parts of the world that feature (or would have featured) on the intinerary of many Irish activists over the years. It should be clear that when it comes to minorities in need of help, we don't need to go haring off half way around the world. The figures for Irish Travellers more often than not compare poorly to those of the supposed victims in far off countries.



To put it more baldly, going by the CIA World Factbook, Irish travellers would be:
- 199th in the world on unemployment
- 185th in the world vis a vis Traveller male life span
- barely above countries such as Libya and equivalent to Albania on infant mortality
- until quite recently, Irish Travellers would have ranked below the West Bank on infant mortality

So, like charity, shouldn't campaigns for human rights begin at home?

Sources:
1. http://lenus.ie/hse/bitstream/10147/82494/1/TravellersHealthActionPlan.pdf
2. http://www.iprt.ie/files/Voices_Unheard_June_2011.pdf
3. The history of Irish Travellers' struggle for civil rights and ethnic recognition | Workers Solidarity Movement
4. Life expectancy of Travellers remains low - irishhealth.com
5. 2002 Census Of Population Volume 8 - Irish Traveller Community - CSO - Central Statistics Office
6. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tt.html
7. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gz.html
8. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/we.html
9. Travellers excluded from labour force
 


artfoley56

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
9,661
So, like charity, shouldn't campaigns for human rights begin at home?
how would it be charity beginning at home whenm they see themselves as not irish due to their unique customs and heritage?
 

neiphin

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
5,585
2nd only to romanians in thieving
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,619
How much of their lifestyle which contributes to the above figures is brought on by themselves. There is no excuse in modern Ireland why they cannot have a good life living in parity with the settled folk. But the differences remain.
This is why Ireland absolutely refuses to look at travelers as a separate ethnic minority where they are recognised as such in the UK as it would look terrible if an ethnic minority rather than a cultural group as they are classed here suffers as these figures illustrate.
 

Shqiptar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
6,309
how would it be charity beginning at home whenm they see themselves as not irish due to their unique customs and heritage?
No. Not at all.

They see themselves as Irish. Indeed, the ones I know are EXTREMELY proud of their Irishness. Way more so than the average Irish person. Some Travellers regard themselves as a separate ethnicity but they all regard themselves as Irish.
 

Shqiptar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
6,309
How much of their lifestyle which contributes to the above figures is brought on by themselves. There is no excuse in modern Ireland why they cannot have a good life living in parity with the settled folk. But the differences remain.
This is why Ireland absolutely refuses to look at travelers as a separate ethnic minority where they are recognised as such in the UK as it would look terrible if an ethnic minority rather than a cultural group as they are classed here suffers as these figures illustrate.
I'll dig it out. It's in one of those links but most of them live settled lives now in houses/
 

Congalltee

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
6,209
Irish people will march to end apartheid in South Africa while voting for councillors who would impose it here on Travellers.

(The Irish traveller is recognised as an ethnic group in Nothern Ireland but are the one social group in the South where ignorant scumbags can incite hatred against with impunity).
 

artfoley56

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
9,661
not to mention the high number of children of MOTC who are the subject of childcare proceedings
 

johnny365

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
14,283
Travellers need to look at themselves and tackle the criminality, and behaviours in their community that lead them to be excluded. If groups like Pavee point done this, instead of defending the indefensible and playing the racist card and blaming the "settled" community for everything, then Travellers could move forward.
 

sadmal

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
12,319
Many Irish activists and politicians have achieved international prominence over the years by taking on certain human rights causes in another country. The West Bank and Gaza would spring to mind at the moment. East Timor was another cause celebre back in the late 1990s.

It's not my aim to attack well-intentioned people who take on a cause with a wholly altruistic motivation but I have sometimes wondered: shouldn't we be looking a lot closer to home at one particular minority here in Ireland? I'm referring to the Travellers.

The table below compares certain demographic statistics of Irish Travellers with those of people in parts of the world that feature (or would have featured) on the intinerary of many Irish activists over the years. It should be clear that when it comes to minorities in need of help, we don't need to go haring off half way around the world. The figures for Irish Travellers more often than not compare poorly to those of the supposed victims in far off countries.



To put it more baldly, going by the CIA World Factbook, Irish travellers would be:
- 199th in the world on unemployment
- 185th in the world vis a vis Traveller male life span
- barely above countries such as Libya and equivalent to Albania on infant mortality
- until quite recently, Irish Travellers would have ranked below the West Bank on infant mortality

So, like charity, shouldn't campaigns for human rights begin at home?

Sources:
1. http://lenus.ie/hse/bitstream/10147/82494/1/TravellersHealthActionPlan.pdf
2. http://www.iprt.ie/files/Voices_Unheard_June_2011.pdf
3. The history of Irish Travellers' struggle for civil rights and ethnic recognition | Workers Solidarity Movement
4. Life expectancy of Travellers remains low - irishhealth.com
5. 2002 Census Of Population Volume 8 - Irish Traveller Community - CSO - Central Statistics Office
6. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tt.html
7. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gz.html
8. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/we.html
9. Travellers excluded from labour force
According to a recent report 80% of travellers have their rent paid for them if living in local arthority housing. Now, that's charity.
 
R

Ramps

Travellers....big on rights; not so hot on repsonsibilties.

The idea that 40,000 people can depend on the "sensitivity" of the other 4.5 million people in ignoring what they see right in front of their eyes is part of this "equality" sickness.

Of course, there are people from that particular background who just want to get on with their lives and want most other people want, e.g. jobs, education, and decent housing. That they are tarred with the same brush is very unfair.
 

Shqiptar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
6,309
Irish people will march to end apartheid in South Africa while voting for councillors who would impose it here on Travellers.

(The Irish traveller is recognised as an ethnic group in Nothern Ireland but are the one social group in the South where ignorant scumbags can incite hatred against with impunity).
I'm an agnostic** on the idea of recognising Travellers as a separate ethnic group. I see them as being as Irish as I am but also as representing as strand of Irish values that the settled community abandoned a long long time ago.

I totally agree that our fellow Irish citizens who are Travellers come in for a level of abuse and discrimination that would provoke outrage were it directed against any other section of Irish society: Protestants, Muslims, Jews, sub-Saharan Africans, South Asians, East Asians....

** I'd leave it to Travellers to decide but I'd hope they wouldn't chose the path of separateness.
 

The OD

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
11,411
I used to have sympathy for them (and I still do for the women) but so much of their troubles are self inflicted as a result of their pretend 'culture'. I do not agree with them being discriminated against and I know plenty who are no better or worse than any other settled person I know but enough is enough with the sympathy. Everyone is a bad way to some extent or another and times are tough.

The only difference between a settled person and a 'traveler' is lifestyle and perceived 'culture'.
 

johnny365

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
14,283
** I'd leave it to Travellers to decide but I'd hope they wouldn't chose the path of separateness.
If they do they should not claim the benefits of being in a society if they want to remain outside society, they should not be allowed claim the benefits of being part of society. They should not be allowed to give us the two fingers and want nothing to do with us and expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for their lifestyle.
 

NewGoldDream

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
20,879
Website
-
If they do they should not claim the benefits of being in a society if they want to remain outside society, they should not be allowed claim the benefits of being part of society. They should not be allowed to give us the two fingers and want nothing to do with us and expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for their lifestyle.
Could you define society and specify how they demand to be omitted from it?
 

Telemachus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
6,565
Website
en.wikipedia.org
What do you propose.

Simple integration is easy, the rest of us are forced into it. If I became a freeman like these guys are, would I suddenly enter this minority and be granted the special "rights" you surely look for these Irish people.

Its interesting tho how many on the left in Ireland are suddenly not left wing when you speak of travelers - they become right wing nut jobs:)lol:) when you bring up the subject.
 

emulator

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
10,260
Jesus.

For a second there when I read the title I thought someone had found a traveller in their back yard.... dicey.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top