Trump branded "oafish and selfish" by grieving mother in diplomatic immunity case.

owedtojoy

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Opinion in the US is sympathetic to the family. One idea you’d glean from some of these US reports is that driving on the left is a weird thing only the Brits do:


A similar case occurred in Pakistan where a ‘diplomat’ ran a red light and killed a motorcyclist. He also attempted to flee the country but was initially stopped from doing so:



It’s alleged he would face charges in the US (probably only by the Pakistani authorities). I don’t think that happened. Are US diplomatic personnel advised to abscond after committing such crimes?

Here’s a dog who claimed diplomatic immunity:

The Dunn family could set up a Go Fund me page, and mount a campaign in the American media. They can name and shame.

There is also a civil case, which could possibly be mounted in the US.

However, given they seem to be a gentle and grief-stricken family, they may not want to go that way.
 


raetsel

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Opinion in the US is sympathetic to the family. One idea you’d glean from some of these US reports is that driving on the left is a weird thing only the Brits do:
Australia and Japan are major countries which drive on the left. It's not confined to the UK and Ireland.
 

recedite

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Driving a local car helps, but you can't undo years of training in a short time. All is fine on wide roads and motorways, but you can make bad split second decisions at roundabouts.
The big one is when you're relaxed driving along a narrow road or lane with no other traffic. If a car (or motorbike) suddenly appears from around a bend, your instinct is to swerve away from the middle of the road, but the wrong way.
I've hired cars abroad a good few times, and although its fairly common, IMO most people underestimate the dangers. Its all fine until something happens.
I've had a motorbike too, and they are fun, but deadly. No way would I let a 19 year old son get one.
The whole thing is a tragedy, but nothing will bring that lad back now. The parents need to accept that, and move on as best they can.
 

raetsel

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Driving a local car helps, but you can't undo years of training in a short time. All is fine on wide roads and motorways, but you can make bad split second decisions at roundabouts.
The big one is when you're relaxed driving along a narrow road or lane with no other traffic. If a car (or motorbike) suddenly appears from around a bend, your instinct is to swerve away from the middle of the road, but the wrong way.
I've hired cars abroad a good few times, and although its fairly common, IMO most people underestimate the dangers. Its all fine until something happens.
I've had a motorbike too, and they are fun, but deadly. No way would I let a 19 year old son get one.
The whole thing is a tragedy, but nothing will bring that lad back now. The parents need to accept that, and move on as best they can.
The cardinal rule is that when you make a mistake at a turn-off don't try to correct at the last moment. Stay calm, and accept that you might lose half an hour if necessary -it will never be more. And of course research your route well before you set out. In the past when I drove on the continent I bought detailed maps for the region. Google maps would I'm sure be even better nowadays.
 

Wagmore

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Gas the way the usual suspects are shamelessly trying to use this tragedy as a stick to be bash Trump. I heard Trump talking about this yesterday without knowing the specifics and he couldn't have been more sensitive to all concerned. Should he wave a wand and force the woman to return to Britain against her will. To listen to you lot, you'd nearly swear Trump was driving the car. Eh.......he wasn't.....
 

Wagmore

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Driving a local car helps, but you can't undo years of training in a short time. All is fine on wide roads and motorways, but you can make bad split second decisions at roundabouts.
The big one is when you're relaxed driving along a narrow road or lane with no other traffic. If a car (or motorbike) suddenly appears from around a bend, your instinct is to swerve away from the middle of the road, but the wrong way.
I've hired cars abroad a good few times, and although its fairly common, IMO most people underestimate the dangers. Its all fine until something happens.
I've had a motorbike too, and they are fun, but deadly. No way would I let a 19 year old son get one.
The whole thing is a tragedy, but nothing will bring that lad back now. The parents need to accept that, and move on as best they can.
This exactly----it's a tragedy. It seems like it was a complete accident. If so, nothing to be done.
 

Ardillaun

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This exactly----it's a tragedy. It seems like it was a complete accident. If so, nothing to be done.
We can say it was a crash but whether it was an accident is another matter. Driver error was a significant factor, and she should not have left the country while investigations were ongoing.
 
Last edited:

rainmaker

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Gas the way the usual suspects are shamelessly trying to use this tragedy as a stick to be bash Trump. I heard Trump talking about this yesterday without knowing the specifics and he couldn't have been more sensitive to all concerned. Should he wave a wand and force the woman to return to Britain against her will. To listen to you lot, you'd nearly swear Trump was driving the car. Eh.......he wasn't.....
No one has said that. They have said he could have waived her DI, as the U.S. has requested & been granted more than a few times.

As usual though you manage to incomprehensibly grasp both wrong ends of any stick.

The fact you sneeringly dismiss the suffering of a family losing a young son to portray Trump as the victim in all this is the abhorrent morality we've come to expect of you.
 

Emily Davison

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Agreed that the US removing her immunity is a complex issue though far from impossible, given the nature of the incident and the country's close links with the U.K., but in any case there is no reason why she and/or her husband shouldn't be pressured by the US Stat Dept into giving up her immunity herself. That's certainly been done before.
Personally I think given it seems clear cut to have been a human error accident, albeit very tragic, would she not get off pretty lightly as in lose her driving licence, which wouldn't affect her really as she's back in America, therefore she could waive her immunity in the interests of justice for the family. It's very very easy to drive on the wrong side of the road, especially if you've never done it much before.
 

Emily Davison

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That's why I started post by saying I'm not a fan of DI.

Way to take my post out of context.

I hope the parents get a lot of compensation from the US.
That's pretty crass. There is no money would compensate for losing one's child. You are insulting the parents of the dead boy.
 

Emily Davison

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As a matter of interest do you know whether the ordinary cars used by the staff at US installations to travel outside are left or right hand drives?

From my own experience of driving both on the continent, I believe that would make a significant difference. Years ago on holiday I took my own car to France. We were staying in a rural wooded area near Fontainebleau, south of Paris, and one morning I hopped into the car to get some things for breakfast from the village and for a brief moment I found myself on the wrong side of the road. It was only around five seconds, before I realised but it brought home to me how easily it can happen.

I'm aware that a Dutch woman on a driving holiday over here a few years ago was killed along with her child having made the same mistake.
We have Americans from the embassy as neighbours. Their cars are shipped over from America for them. As it's the same side of the road there is no issue. But there most certainly is in Ireland. Even without steering wheel on the wrong side. So whenever I leave Dublin airport and meet American's etc I always tell them to be extra careful on the small roads and particularly at junctions. Even myself at the airport, I have to put my thinking hat on at the very first round about at the car rental place. And hand on heart I've made a couple of mistakes myself just like you outlined. It's really easy to do.
 

edg

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That's pretty crass. There is no money would compensate for losing one's child. You are insulting the parents of the dead boy.
You hope they don't get any compensation?

That is so very cold hearted. Why don't you want them compensated?

What a scummy post Emily.
 

Emily Davison

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They would almost certainly be right hand drive vehicles - it's not usually worth bringing a vehicle to the UK for a posting.
I think you're way wrong on this. The American's are quite tight on what they will pay for. So they get free housing, utilities etc. Their own personal stuff will be shipped over including the cars. I've seen them struggle for two or three weeks while waiting for their car (they move pretty regularly so I've seen this many times). The odd time one of the families somehow manages to get a tiny car for the two or three weeks. And the families worry about damaging anything in the houses. One of them liked our cat but they were worried he would scratch the furniture etc. They have to pay for that. Given we are not talking expensive stuff I was amazed at how worried they were. So there must be some kind of inspection.
 

Emily Davison

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You hope they don't get any compensation?

That is so very cold hearted. Why don't you want them compensated?

What a scummy post Emily.
Have you reading problems. I never said anywhere that I didn't want them compensated. Go back and read my post.

I'd want not one red cent from anyone if my child was killed. What good would it do, it wouldn't solve the grief. Ever. But if the family go for compensation, than that's up to them, I will not judge them for it. Now that this has hit the redtops it will end up a mess entirely.
 

edg

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Have you reading problems. I never said anywhere that I didn't want them compensated. Go back and read my post.

I'd want not one red cent from anyone if my child was killed. What good would it do, it wouldn't solve the grief. Ever. But if the family go for compensation, than that's up to them, I will not judge them for it. Now that this has hit the redtops it will end up a mess entirely.
You called me crass for hoping they get compensated.

I do hope they get compensated and any idiot like you who disagrees can take a running jump.

Why do you not want people to hope they get compensated? Why call them crass?

As I said, scummy post Emily.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The Americans are always somewhat at odds with laws elsewhere. It is the same at the highest levels of justice as it is at the level of tragedies like this case.

When the International Criminal Courts were being organised the Americans demanded a blanket amnesty from the ICC processes for any and all American citizens.

Otherwise they refused to join or support the work of the ICC. Gotta love the commitment to justice.
 

edg

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The Americans are always somewhat at odds with laws elsewhere. It is the same at the highest levels of justice as it is at the level of tragedies like this case.

When the International Criminal Courts were being organised the Americans demanded a blanket amnesty from the ICC processes for any and all American citizens.

Otherwise they refused to join or support the work of the ICC. Gotta love the commitment to justice.
They're the weakest link in common law jurisdiction imo.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Same with the World Health Organisation. The Americans couldn't grab control of the W.H.O which is the only reason the world has W.H.O and PAHO, (Pan American Health Organisation).

They can stack PAHO proceedings with north and south American stooges but they couldn't quite manage that at the World Health Organisation so they decided they didn't want to know and set up their own organisation.

No other reason than protection of American exceptionalism.
 

Ardillaun

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Gas the way the usual suspects are shamelessly trying to use this tragedy as a stick to be bash Trump. I heard Trump talking about this yesterday without knowing the specifics and he couldn't have been more sensitive to all concerned. Should he wave a wand and force the woman to return to Britain against her will. To listen to you lot, you'd nearly swear Trump was driving the car. Eh.......he wasn't.....
This problem predates Trump but his comments were ill-advised.

Regarding a lawsuit, we're not talking Irish eejitry like whiplash or falling down in a farmer's field here. The family have suffered appalling harm and should pursue legal proceedings if the authorities won't do their job.
 


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