Trump is not a Populist, he is a Neo-Fascist ...

owedtojoy

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I posted this in October last year: http://www.politics.ie/forum/history/259822-daddy-whats-fascist.html#post11542893

The Characteristics of Fascism:

  1. Morality is ultimately tied to loyalty to one's nation, blood, and race, both in terms of its military and political strength and ultimately in terms of its demographic expansion.
  2. One's nation, blood, and race, is realised in a state. Individuals have duties to the state, seen as the decision-making organ of the collective. In return, the state will provide for its people.
  3. The state must be ruled by a strong leader, the highest in a hierarchy of leaders; what the Nazis called the Fuehrerprinzip.
  4. Parliamentary democracy is inherently unstable and weak, and individuals have no rights per se. The only rights they possess are granted by virtue of membership of the nation, blood or race.
  5. The courts, the law and the police ultimately serve the state, not an abstract conception of "individual rights".
  6. An eagerness to use any weapons--suspension of parliamentary democracy, mass propaganda, rallies, street violence, and so forth--to combat Fascism's domestic enemies, usually Marxists, but also any racial or sexual "other".
Neo-fascism is the new brand of fascism, one that can be centred on Russia, and the illiberal, kleptocratic regime of Vladimir Putin.

So what is a populist? It is name Trump's supporters would not reject:

The Characteristics of Populism:

  1. Populism works within the democratic system, espousing a rejection of the elite (though members of the elite are often populists, so this can be selective).
  2. It mobilises popular support to obtain electoral majorities.
  3. It adopts policies that boost the less well off that are its constituency
  4. It adopts policies that shifts the benefits of state power from the rich to the poor.
  5. Many populist policies are common-sense but some may not be.
[Populism is a style of doing politics, not an ideology in itself}

Trump fits the fascist model much more than the populist. His alleged "populism" was a sham. His main effort since taking office is to consolidate power to the rich, and to enrich himself.

The tax cut he boasted would help the blue collar worker in fact helped the corporate class e.g. Harley-Davidson closed a factory, then did a stock buyback with their tax savings. The "infrastructure plan" meant to be a job creator has been shelved and forgotten. Cheaper drugs and medicines? A disappointment. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (meant to be a protection from predatory bank and credit card lending) is being wound down and rendered toothless. Financial regulations, hated by Wall Street, have been scrapped. "Great healthcare" has been scrapped .... and the US uninsured rate has started to rise for the first time in 4 years.

The Wall is popular with the Trump base, but that was never a job-creator. It is more of a hate-mongering, irrational message to "The Other", the essential proclamation of victim-hood. Scapegoating immigrants for jobs losses and crime is exactly in line with the fascist playbook.

A fascist seizure of power is a rolling process, with roughly four stages:

  1. A grievance, often a genuine popular discontent with the status quo - unemployment, economic depression, corruption, immigration, crime.
  2. Would-be strongmen identify scapegoats - the local elite, foreign governments, minorities, immigrants, Muslims.
  3. Having taken power on the back of a popular movement, the strongmen begin an assault on the institutions of the state and civil society: impartial courts, the free press, the police, the electoral system, with the goal of stifling free debate and opposition. Honest judges, journalists and politicians are accused of being "enemies of the people". Impartial bureaucrats are replaced with stooges and the guardians of free speech are suppressed e.g. owners of independent television stations are forced to sell out, as in Russia and Hungary. You could call this stage "illiberal democracy" and it is identical to the direction in which Trump is driving America.
  4. In the last stage, individual rights have been extinguished, the rule of law is a nullity because the strongman's word is the only law, Liberal institutions (courts, electoral commissions, the press) are the creature of the ruler and take their instructions accordingly. Elections may be held in name, but neutral monitors are ignored or silenced, opposition candidates locked up or murdered, districts gerrymandered, constitutions altered or completely rewritten, and legislatures emasculated.

Russia, Turkey and Hungary have been through this process, though the last two are not as sunk into the last stage as much as Russia is. The US is transitioning from 2 to 3 under Trump - he has already replaced most important bureaucrats with stooges incapable of an independent opinion, the cruelty of the immigration police has struck many observers, he has often voiced his preference for autocracy over democracy, federal employees are being vetted for loyalty to "the leader", he shows none of the ethical sense that a democratic leader should (like praising a murderer and tyrant like Kim Jong-Un), his sympathies for hard-right racists (described as "good people") and the continuing personal enrichment of him and his family by using the state.

1 and 2 are when populism should stop. An "illiberal democracy" is a fake democracy. Our best hope is that it is a mature democracy with a strong belief in the rule of law that is common across all parties and most citizens, while Russia, Turkey and Hungary were not. This struggle against Trump is the age-old one: truth against lies, freedom against tyranny.

Talk: Thinking About President Donald Trump

Brad de Long "The reason we are not yet in real trouble is that our fascism is incompetent".

Trump may be an incompetent populist who blundered into fascism, and I would allow for that possibility, but in that case it is not him who we should fear so much as the strongman who comes after him.
 
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GDPR

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Sarah Kendzior (well worth the google) has been writing about Trump and incipient authoritarianism in the US for quite a while. The Plot Against America, if you like.

Trump is similar to Mussolini. The wall will never be built, the trains never did run on time. There are significant differences though, which make me more optimistic than Sarah.

This man is going down. By law.
 

GabhaDubh

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More a Americanist and megalomaniac, I believe you have unnecessarily overly complicated
 

Analyzer

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From the poster who sided with the candidate in the PotUSA election, that owed to Qatar.

In case anybody needs a reminder, I will give you a quote from the FOUNDER OF FASCISM - Mussolini.

Fascism is the merger of the corporate and the state power.
In case anybody has any doubts as to how that is realised, I recommend that you view the contents of donor list of the Clinton Foundation. Or concerning the revelations contained in Wikileaks.
 

GDPR

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From the poster who sided with the candidate in the PotUSA election, that owed to Qatar.

In case anybody needs a reminder, I will give you a quote from the FOUNDER OF FASCISM - Mussolini.



In case anybody has any doubts as to how that is realised, I recommend that you view the contents of donor list of the Clinton Foundation. Or concerning the revelations contained in Wikileaks.
Thats truly funny. Trump was put in place by corporate US interests like the ghastly Mercers. He is beholden to a state, Russia, which consists of oligarchs, spooks and criminals. He thinks the US laws are for little people and dont apply to him. Its right in your face and you cant see it.
 

Levellers

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He's not a fascist but he is authoritarian and a crook.

"He’s the head of a country. And I mean, he is the strong head. Don’t let anyone think anything different. He speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same," Trump said.
 

Analyzer

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Thats truly funny. Trump was put in place by corporate US interests like the ghastly Mercers. He is beholden to a state, Russia, which consists of oligarchs, spooks and criminals. He thinks the US laws are for little people and dont apply to him. Its right in your face and you cant see it.
Your response is BS. And the Mercers are mild mannered, and far less ghastly than the Emir of Qatar, or Mr. Dodgysell.

Concerning those who think laws are for other people, there is HRC's server, Slick Willy's rapes, the Awan brothers, Weiner's sexting, the mysterious death of Seth Rich which terrified Donna Brazil, and that "super-predator" who got away with it for years "Harveywood".

And I can see it for the BS that it is.
 

GDPR

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Your response is BS. And the Mercers are mild mannered, and far less ghastly than the Emir of Qatar, or Mr. Dodgysell.

Concerning those who think laws are for other people, there is HRC's server, Slick Willy's rapes, the Awan brothers, Weiner's sexting, the mysterious death of Seth Rich which terrified Donna Brazil, and that "super-predator" who got away with it for years "Harveywood".

And I can see it for the BS that it is.
You are totally unaware of Qatars role in the Trump investigation arent you? I know its complex, but you could always google.

The rest of your post is just a mish-mash of current alt-right conspiracy theories.
 

USER1234

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We talking about the guy who only 2 days ago on live tv that he wanted people to treat him like the north Koreans treat their dictator and a few days before that it was reported a senior advisor to the State Department appointed just two months ago has been quietly vetting career diplomats and American employees of international institutions to determine whether they are loyal to President Donald Trump and his political agenda!!
 

Niall996

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Fascists are people who believe others are enemies of the state, while these others believe that the fascists are enemies of the state and all sides accuse each of other of being anti patriotic, populist and elitist. The real difference being the left and the right is who you sat beside in freshers year in college.
 

Orbit v2

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From the poster who sided with the candidate in the PotUSA election, that owed to Qatar.

In case anybody needs a reminder, I will give you a quote from the FOUNDER OF FASCISM - Mussolini.



In case anybody has any doubts as to how that is realised, I recommend that you view the contents of donor list of the Clinton Foundation. Or concerning the revelations contained in Wikileaks.
Seriously, what has the Clinton foundation got to do with whether Trump is a populist or fascist?
 

Civic_critic2

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Social democracy came about because of the threat and inspiration of the USSR on the borders of western Europe and relieved, briefly and for the first time in millennia, the exploitation of the many by the few.

Capitalists in the last 70 years have pointed to social democracy as the outcome of capitalism and the height of achievement of a humane, technologically progressive economic system. The truth is that social democracy was forced on capitalism by the existence of communism and now that communism has disappeared social democracy is disappearing as capitalism returns to type and seeks to crush tens of millions while barreling towards world war.

It looks like Trump is the last roll of the dice, after that comes revolution.
 

Volatire

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Social democracy came about because of the threat and inspiration of the USSR on the borders of western Europe and relieved, briefly and for the first time in millennia, the exploitation of the many by the few.

Capitalists in the last 70 years have pointed to social democracy as the outcome of capitalism and the height of achievement of a humane, technologically progressive economic system. The truth is that social democracy was forced on capitalism by the existence of communism and now that communism has disappeared social democracy is disappearing as capitalism returns to type and seeks to crush tens of millions while barreling towards world war.

It looks like Trump is the last roll of the dice, after that comes revolution.
Awesome. Thank you.
 

owedtojoy

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Sarah Kendzior (well worth the google) has been writing about Trump and incipient authoritarianism in the US for quite a while. The Plot Against America, if you like.

Trump is similar to Mussolini. The wall will never be built, the trains never did run on time. There are significant differences though, which make me more optimistic than Sarah.

This man is going down. By law.
To be honest, I would rather he was defeated electorally.

The American people are not fascist at heart, and I think Trump's corruption and disrespect for their political tradition will disgust them.

But, if the law is to take its course, then let it be so.

The USA bedrock is that it is a Republic of Laws, not of Kings, Emperors or Autocrats. Everyone is equal before the Law.
 

GDPR

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To be honest, I would rather he was defeated electorally.

The American people are not fascist at heart, and I think Trump's corruption and disrespect for their political tradition will disgust them.

But, if the law is to take its course, then let it be so.

The USA bedrock is that it is a Republic of Laws, not of Kings, Emperors or Autocrats. Everyone is equal before the Law.
I am of the view that this is what will happen. The slimeballs around him are going to face serious jail time, and to be frank they should have been scooped years ago. I am not romantic enough to see TREASON, just gangsters.

Trump, IMO, wont be impeached, he will just be sidelined, and the GOP will pay the price for standing by an obvious charlatan.

The Old Ark a-movering on.
 

Civic_critic2

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To be honest, I would rather he was defeated electorally.

The American people are not fascist at heart, and I think Trump's corruption and disrespect for their political tradition will disgust them.

But, if the law is to take its course, then let it be so.

The USA bedrock is that it is a Republic of Laws, not of Kings, Emperors or Autocrats. Everyone is equal before the Law.
The law is an expression of class relations, the fact that you think it is a 'thing in itself' shows how deluded you are.

The legal attacks on Trump and efforts to remove him are merely expressions of factional interests, not the pursuit of some kind of Platonic principle.
 

Mick Mac

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Those characteristics perfectly describe Erdogan.

But Erdogan isn't bufoonish and has no opposition while the Donald can be a bit eccentric and has loads of opponents.

Not all fascists are treated the same. Sure, America is bigbut Turkey is next door.

The weakness in responding to the return of real fascism is disappointing.
 


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