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Trump LGBT policy

USER1234

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He did the right thing in not going out to that hellhole and I doubt many of our heroes on here would not have done the same thing in his position.
So because your a trump cultist you think its ok he committed a criminal act by dodging service while others who went overprivilaged, spoilt manchilds and didnt have a rich daddy with a podiatrist at his beck and call to run to, went off to war!

Of course If it was any of trump opponents who did this, you'd be screaming for their immediate arrest and imprisonment for 30 years!!
 
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O'Sullivan Bere

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He did the right thing in not going out to that hellhole and I doubt many of our heroes on here would not have done the same thing in his position.
Nobody likes paying taxes either but it gives nobody the entitlement to criminally evade paying them.

And no, I unequivocally would not have done what he did insofar as criminal draft evasion during wartime under those circumstances.

Whilst the Vietnam War became very controversial over time, it was not a clear war crime 'war of aggression' under International law precepts. Remedies for opposing it included lawful protest and voting, seeking conscientious objector status and other lawful draft avoidance strategies, requesting noncombat military service assignments, choosing accepted civilian alternative means of service, etc, that lawfully satisfied wartime obligations.

With citizenship comes essential obligations with its benefits. Serving during wartime when called upon to do so is one of them and if you intend to criminally evade that duty then IMO you should lose your citizenship.

Aggravating the circumstances of what Trump and his father did was that their stance was not a principled one. The Trumps going back to Friedrich who was stripped of citizenship and expelled from Germany for criminal draft evasion is that they simply refuse to perform military service for any reason and no matter the cause for selfish reasons. Their approach to citizenship is parasitical and thus unworthy of it.
 
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Dame_Enda

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Flag war getting a bit farcicle. Some embassies are ignoring the warning from the State Dept not to fly the rainbow flag. The US embassy in Germany (the Ambassador Rick Grenell is gay) is flying it anyway. Now they are hairsplitting by saying its in line with the rules as long as its not flying on the same pole as the US flag.
 

owedtojoy

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Flag war getting a bit farcicle. Some embassies are ignoring the warning from the State Dept not to fly the rainbow flag. The US embassy in Germany (the Ambassador Rick Grenell is gay) is flying it anyway. Now they are hairsplitting by saying its in line with the rules as long as its not flying on the same pole as the US flag.
A Rainbow flag and the Stars and Stripes hanging on the same pole .....????

Too symbolic for some people, I guess, the phallocracy .etc etc
 

Herr Rommel

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Nobody likes paying taxes either but it gives nobody the entitlement to criminally evade paying them.

And no, I unequivocally would not have done what he did insofar as criminal draft evasion during wartime under those circumstances.

Whilst the Vietnam War became very controversial over time, it was not a clear war crime 'war of aggression' under International law precepts. Remedies for opposing it included lawful protest and voting, seeking conscientious objector status and other lawful draft avoidance strategies, requesting noncombat military service assignments, choosing accepted civilian alternative means of service, etc, that lawfully satisfied wartime obligations.

With citizenship comes essential obligations with its benefits. Serving during wartime when called upon to do so it one of them and if you intend to criminally evade that duty then IMO you should lose your citizenship.

Aggravating the circumstances of what Trump and his father did was that their stance was not a principled one. The Trumps going back to Friedrich who was stripped of citizenship and expelled from Germany for criminal draft evasion is that they simply refuse to perform military service for any reason and no matter the cause for selfish reasons. Their approach to citizenship is parasitical and thus unworthy of it.
If you could buy your way out of it you would.
 

Herr Rommel

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So because your a trump cultist you think its ok he committed a criminal act by dodging service while others who went overprivilaged, spoilt manchilds and didnt have a rich daddy with a podiatrist at his beck and call to run to, went off to war!

Of course If it was any of trump opponents who did this, you'd be screaming for their immediate arrest and imprisonment for 30 years!!
Cassius Clay did ok out of dodging the draft.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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If you could buy your way out of it you would.
Although the ability to directly buy your way out of the draft occurred in the US Civil War rather than Vietnam a century later, the US draft policies certainly made it a rich man's war and poor man's fight insofar as conscription.

That said, no, I would not necessarily do that at all. For example, I would have even volunteered without pause or instruction during WWII in order to defeat the Axis Powers given the extent of their villainous nature and conduct. I'm now pragmatically well past my 'sell by' date for formal military service, but if the US or Irish government called upon me in any legal manner to assist against vicious threats like AQ or ISIS I'd perform it.

I also oppose the kinds of tilted conscription laws you're describing. They were unjust then and would be unjust now and I believe that was conceded later in the Vietnam War by changes in policies. What's under discussion is an equally shared obligation of all citizens.
 

owedtojoy

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Cassius Clay did ok out of dodging the draft.
Muhammed Ali did not "dodge the draft".

Trump dodged the draft because he or his father paid a doctor to write up a medical reason for him to avoid conscription.

Ali could have done that, but he courageously chose not to. He refused the draft point-blank on a matter of principle, and took his chances with the law.
 

parentheses

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Americans evidently don't care about draft dodger presidents. Trump is the third draft dodger.

And when given the choice between a draft dodger and a candidate who served his country, Americans have chosen the dodger.
 

owedtojoy

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Americans evidently don't care about draft dodger presidents. Trump is the third draft dodger.

And when given the choice between a draft dodger and a candidate who served his country, Americans have chosen the dodger.
It was always a myth that Americans prefer war heroes or ex-Generals as Presidents, but that is not necessarily true.

They chose Obama over McCain, Bush over Kerry, General Wesley Clark could not get a nomination. Colin Powell might have become the first black President, but chose not to run. Generals going into electoral politics have been rare since Eisenhower.

Michael Dukakis in a tank, and Bush on an aircraft carrier off California with MISSION ACCOMPLISHED hanging over him, should put politicians off militarism for ever. But maybe not.

The fact is that, despite the media and politicians playing the "Thank You for Your Service" card, Americans take their armed forces very much for granted, and service members are not as respected as many think.
 
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O'Sullivan Bere

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It was always a myth that Americans prefer war heroes or ex-Generals as Presidents, but that is not necessarily true.

They chose Obama over McCain, Bush over Kerry, General Wesley Clark could not get a nomination. Colin Powell might have become the first black President, but chose not to run. Generals going into electoral politics have been rare since Eisenhower.

Michael Dukakis in a tank, and Bush on an aircraft carrier off California with MISSION ACCOMPLISHED hanging over him, should put politicians off militarism for ever. But maybe not.

The fact is that, despite the media and politicians playing the "Thank You for Your Service" card, Americans take their armed forces very much for granted, and service members are not as respected as many think.
True. That said, unlike legal draft avoidance where each individual was left to be socially judged upon their respective facts and circumstances, the US throughout most of its history comprehensively took an extremely dim view of criminal draft evasion during wartime where it was deemed a self-executing expatriating event, e.g., the Enrollment Act of 1865 and the Selective Training and Service Act of 1940.

In 1963, the self-executing aspect of expatriation of criminal draft evaders was declared unconstitutional in Kennedy v. Mendoza-Martinez as violating due process of law under the US Constitution. In doing so, however, the SCOTUS majority opinion expressly stated that: "We recognize that draft evasion, particularly in time of war, is a heinous offense, and should and can be properly punished."

Four years later in Afroyim v. Rusk, the SCOTUS held that US citizens cannot be involuntarily stripped of their US citizenship, although the dissent explicitly cited things like the Enrollment Act of 1863 for the longstanding acceptance that criminal draft evasion was an expatriating act.

Ironically, for people like Trump and his supporters, both decisions were 5-4 and it was the SCOTUS's liberal justices that chose to protect the citizenship of someone like Trump who chose to criminally defraud a draft board to criminally evade compulsory military service during wartime with the aggravating factor of having done it for unprincipled reasons.
 
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petaljam

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Ironically, for people like Trump and his supporters, both decisions were 5-4 and it was the SCOTUS's liberal justices that chose to protect the citizenship of someone like Trump who chose to criminally defraud a draft board to criminally evade compulsory military service during wartime with the aggravating factor of having done it for unprincipled reasons.
Damm Libruls, huh? :whistle:
 

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