Turkey: NATO's hemmarhoid

Hewson

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
8,271
Turkey is having some serious problems right now, from home-grown insurrection in the form of Kurdish militancy and the authoritarian antics of its semi-fascist, narcissistic President, Tayiip Erdogan to its position as a crossroads from Syria and Iraq and the stream of war-weary refugees clamouring for access to Europe.

Unfortunately, it's also an important NATO member and one that, despite the unease it's causing among the organisation's more liberal members, will probably not be dumped overboard as a consequence of the increasingly repressive behaviour of its President. To an extent this is understandable because of Turkey's strategic importance but the pressure will surely have to grow for a response to the very un-Western-like locking up of journalists, the widespread sacking of academics, civil servants and police and military personnel who, in the eyes of Turkey's corrupt leader, pose a threat to his authority.

It's not unlike 1930s Germany, though opinion on Erdogan is split almost 50/50 among Turks. To some he's an Islamofascist dictator, to others the kind of strongman the country needs, given its geopolitical situation.

Erdogan's most recent trampling of the democratic process has seen the Kurdish HDP leaders (the Turkish Parliament's third largest Party) placed under arrest on suspicion (!) of supporting the outlawed PKK, a militant fringe bent on creating a Kurdish homeland carved out of Syrian, Turkish, Iranian and Northern Iraqi areas of Kurdish populations.

Turkey once had ambitions to join the EU, a move openly supported by the British Foreign Minister, Boris Johnson, but after years of talks it seems any hope of accession is being diluted in proportion to the level of oppression within Turkey.

With the West's relationship with Russia at an all time low Putin is busy courting Turkey, despite the recent spat over the shooting down of a Russian jet fighter on a mission over Syria.

The West now has a conondrum: keeping Turkey in the fold, despite the empty megaphone criticism, as a buffer between Europe and the chaos that is the Middle East, or cutting it loose as a pariah state with a budding fascist at the helm, representing everything that democracy despises.

Is Turkey still a democracy? - BBC News

Are we witnessing a new era of far right / fascist movements and governments, an echo of the Europe of 80 years ago? And what might a figure like Trump, eager to tap into and expolit widespread discontent with mainstream politics, have on how fragile democracy operates?
 


im axeled

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
29,289
seeing as nato turned a blind eye to the working beetle like 24 hour convoys of oil leaving syria for turkey, organised by the son of the pres nothing will happen
 
O

Oscurito

The world is feeling very 1933ish all over again.

And the neo-authoritarian types are praying for a Trump-type figure to make them feel all respectable and mainstream.
 

Karloff

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
6,952
To an extent this is understandable because of Turkey's strategic importance but the pressure will surely have to grow for a response to the very un-Western-like locking up of journalists, the widespread sacking of academics, civil servants and police and military personnel who, in the eyes of Turkey's corrupt leader, pose a threat to his authority.
The West is comfortable working with dictators and tyrants and with human rights abusers in general (a club the West is also a member of). I do not see the source of this 'pressure' you are referring to.
 

Hewson

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
8,271
The West is comfortable working with dictators and tyrants and with human rights abusers in general (a club the West is also a member of). I do not see the source of this 'pressure' you are referring to.
The most vocal critics of Erdogan have been the Germans.

The irony shouldn't be lost on the rest of the EU.
 

olli rehn

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
8,249
The world is feeling very 1933ish all over again.

And the neo-authoritarian types are praying for a Trump-type figure to make them feel all respectable and mainstream.
Yes- more nazi type scum crawling out of the woodwork every day...Putin-Trump-Orban-Erdogan-Kaczyński-Duterte-Hofer-Strache-Farage-Le Pen- Wilders-Petry...the boys from Brazil all over the effing planet !
 

parentheses

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
13,969
NATO cannot cut Turkey loose. Turkey occupies some of the most strategically important real estate on the planet.




.
 

Karloff

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
6,952
Read you own link:
"The case was dropped in October 2016."
A prosecution went ahead, which is what i said. A Merkel pushed hard for it.
 

Boy M5

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
21,420
I misread it as hammerhead
 

Karloff

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
6,952
How do you know that Merkel "pushed hard for it " ?
All SPD ministers voted against the decision in the federal government. Nevertheless, Merkel's vote for the prosecution of Böhmermann was decisive. The opposition parties in the Bundestag, Alliance '90/The Greens and Die Linke, as well as the FDP party sharply criticised the decision.[24] On 22 April Merkel herself called her criticism of the poem as "intentionally hurtful" a "mistake" about which she was "annoyed", while defending the decision to allow criminal proceedings against Böhmerman
She wanted him prosecuted then backed down in the face of overwhelming objections from opposition parties, the media and the German public.

Many will raise a glass when this woman is removed from her position, i know i will.
 

olli rehn

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
8,249
She wanted him prosecuted then backed down in the face of overwhelming objections from opposition parties, the media and the German public.

Many will raise a glass when this woman is removed from her position, i know i will.
I'll give her another 5 years ! You will not get rid of her that fast. There is no possible alternative to her.
 
O

Oscurito

Yes- more nazi type scum crawling out of the woodwork every day...Putin-Trump-Orban-Erdogan-Kaczyński-Duterte-Hofer-Strache-Farage-Le Pen- Wilders-Petry...the boys from Brazil all over the effing planet !
I'm kind of resigned to it. Social media has a LOT to answer for. It's a wet dream for extremists offering simplistic solutions. Simple lies are so much easier to digest than complex truths and if the liar tailors his lies to the prejudices of his audience, it's like shooting fish in a f__king barrel.
 

Old Mr Grouser

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
6,341
NATO cannot cut Turkey loose. Turkey occupies some of the most strategically important real estate on the planet.

.
You've hit the nail on the head.

This little 2-minute Stratfor video explains it with maps.


[video=youtube;hDTbTk13uik]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDTbTk13uik[/video]
 

gleeful

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
7,520
Nato has had many non-democracies as members - including Turkey in the past when it was a military dictatorship, and Spain under fascism.

Nato is about isolating and containing Russia - it has nothing to do with political freedom.
 

Elvis jaffacake

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
5,874
Nato has had many non-democracies as members - including Turkey in the past when it was a military dictatorship, and Spain under fascism.

Nato is about isolating and containing Russia - it has nothing to do with political freedom.
Spain joined in 82....
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top