Turkey to invade Kurdish area of Syria.

recedite

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It was Obama that entangled US Forces in the Syria Quagmire
Quite right. It was one of Trump's election promises that he would finish off IS and then get the troops home ASAP.
Funny how Trump-haters criticise Trump whenever he fulfills one of his election promises.
Its like they really can't handle a politician who actually tries to do what he promised. They aren't used to that concept.
 


petaljam

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Which president? I give more credit to presidents Assad and Putin than I do to Trump. Trump was late to the game.

If ISIS stands for Islamic State in Syria, how can it be in Afghanistan now? You are conflating random Islamic terrorist jihadis and calling them all ISIS, just to make it seem like ISIS has merely redeployed and not been annihilated. Muslim jihadi terrorists will still be around in various countries (including Europe) we all know that.
But Islamic State was the Caliphate project. It is finished.
Lol. You're confusing the latest English-media name for them with how they see themselves. And even then you're forgetting that they were originally referred to ISIL, ie, in the Levant. Look up how far that goes.

Or maybe you think they changed their own name as they lost ground? :rolleyes:
 

owedtojoy

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Quite right. It was one of Trump's election promises that he would finish off IS and then get the troops home ASAP.
Funny how Trump-haters criticise Trump whenever he fulfills one of his election promises.
Its like they really can't handle a politician who actually tries to do what he promised. They aren't used to that concept.
Just another promise broken then.

And since the Pentagon recently re-inforced US troops in the Gulf, to deal with Trump's Iran ****-up, it is a promise he has broken twice over.

PS ISIS was never confined to Syria, and the Caliphate included parts of Iraq, like the city of Mosul. Stop being just a parrot for Trump's PR. Besides, ISIS still exists in Syria.
 

owedtojoy

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725px-Syrian_Civil_War_map.svg_.png


 

Paddyc

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I think abandoning the Kurds to the Turks is awful. A grave and unjust mistake.
I don't often agree with you, but you are perfectly correct in this.

Apart from the morality of it, I know , I know..... abandoning the Kurds like this serves no useful strategic interest, destroys faith in the US as an ally in the region and gives IS a life line.

While the physical state (such as it was) is gone, all the pieces that make up that state still exist and they thrive in a vacuum.

I don't see what's in it for the US long term.
 

james toney

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Kurdish-led civilian administration in northeastern Syria issues a "general mobilization" call along the border with Turkey, as Ankara masses troops ahead of an imminent invasion.
Turkey will see that as the excuse for the mass murder of civilians...Turkey will claim them as combatants.

a-betrayal-too-far
 

petaljam

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abandoning the Kurds like this serves no useful strategic interest, destroys faith in the US as an ally in the region and gives IS a life line.

While the physical state (such as it was) is gone, all the pieces that make up that state still exist and they thrive in a vacuum.

I don't see what's in it for the US long term.
Trump literally doesn't care one tap about what the consequences for the country might be, only whether there's something in it - however trivial or short term - for him.
 

wombat

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This is one occasion when Trump's cluelessness may do measurable damage to U.S. interests so it may give Republicans an excuse to abandon him. I remember Albert Reynold's quote - its the little things that get you.
 

Ardillaun

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Not very reassuring:

The U.S. military has no plans to intervene if Syrian Kurdish forces abandon a constellation of Islamic State prisons in Syria to confront a possible Turkish invasion, officials said Tuesday.

Kurdish officials said that guards were still in place at the more than 20 prisons and camps under their control but were prepared to move, raising the possibility that about 11,000 militants and their families could escape.

U.S. officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity to describe the evolving U.S. strategy in Syria, said the Pentagon did not have enough forces to oversee the prisons if those facilities were left unguarded, nor a mandate to do so.

The Trump administration has said the responsibility for the militants detained by the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), the main U.S. partner against the Islamic State in Syria, would fall to the Turkish government if it goes ahead with the incursion.

 

Kevin Parlon

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I think what everyone seems to be missing here is Erdogen's grab for the ISIS prisoners. We all know Erdogen allowed European Jihadis to transit his country with relative impunity and he has a record of extorting Europe for taxpayer cash in return for not opening the migrant floodgates. If we can thank the "wankerer from Ankarer" (as BoJo called him) for one thing it is for removing the last shreds of credibility of the Pro-Turkey-Accession lobbyists.
 

Kevin Parlon

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I don't often agree with you, but you are perfectly correct in this.

Apart from the morality of it, I know , I know..... abandoning the Kurds like this serves no useful strategic interest, destroys faith in the US as an ally in the region and gives IS a life line.

While the physical state (such as it was) is gone, all the pieces that make up that state still exist and they thrive in a vacuum.

I don't see what's in it for the US long term.
Trump has probably been "rolled" on this one as has been reported. Him being a "business" guy, a decent guess is that he probably agreed to this in return for a promise to buy more arms. Shockingly short-sighted and amoral stuff by POTUS.
 

Kevin Parlon

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Good article in the Atlantic about this

 

wombat

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I think what everyone seems to be missing here is Erdogen's grab for the ISIS prisoners. We all know Erdogen allowed European Jihadis to transit his country with relative impunity and he has a record of extorting Europe for taxpayer cash in return for not opening the migrant floodgates. If we can thank the "wankerer from Ankarer" (as BoJo called him) for one thing it is for removing the last shreds of credibility of the Pro-Turkey-Accession lobbyists.
A lot wrong with the post. There is no evidence of Turkey colluding with terrorists, they have had enough experience to know that its a losing game. Regarding immigrants, Turkey have by far the greatest number of Syrian refugees, I think it may be currently 3m. Erdogan is far from being universally popular, if the opposition could unite behind a competant leader, there's a good chance that Erdogan could be beaten.
 

Kevin Parlon

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A lot wrong with the post. There is no evidence of Turkey colluding with terrorists, they have had enough experience to know that its a losing game. Regarding immigrants, Turkey have by far the greatest number of Syrian refugees, I think it may be currently 3m. Erdogan is far from being universally popular, if the opposition could unite behind a competant leader, there's a good chance that Erdogan could be beaten.
I don't say Erdogen actively colluded. I say he knowingly turned a blind eye to the sudden uptick in EU passport holders named Mohammed feigning an interest in holidaying in Southern Turkey. Yes, Turkey has many refugees within its borders but that of itself doesn't contradict my assertion that it is using the presence of those refugees as a gun to the head of the EU. Ataturk's modern secular (Western) Turkey has simply been outbred by fiercely Islamic (Eastern) Turkey.
 

recedite

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PS ISIS was never confined to Syria, and the Caliphate included parts of Iraq, like the city of Mosul. Stop being just a parrot for Trump's PR. Besides, ISIS still exists in Syria.
But is not in Afghanistan, which is where you suggested it was surviving.
As I already pointed out IS sympathisers, or Daesh, will continue to crop up anywhere, but the Islamic State itself is finished.
 

owedtojoy

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A lot wrong with the post. There is no evidence of Turkey colluding with terrorists, they have had enough experience to know that its a losing game. Regarding immigrants, Turkey have by far the greatest number of Syrian refugees, I think it may be currently 3m. Erdogan is far from being universally popular, if the opposition could unite behind a competant leader, there's a good chance that Erdogan could be beaten.
Erdogan has used blackmail with the EU more than once ... eventually the EU paid him 3.5 billion euros to "manage" the problem.

Unfortunately, Erdogan's popularity is flagging, the Turkish economy is slipping, and he may see a nice war might allow him to play the Turkish Nationalist card. The "safety zone" will be ethnically cleansed of Kurds, and transplanted with Turks, adding more unfortunate refugees to the Middle East total.

Worst case, Northern Syria will be the New Yemen.
 

owedtojoy

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But is not in Afghanistan, which is where you suggested it was surviving.
As I already pointed out IS sympathisers, or Daesh, will continue to crop up anywhere, but the Islamic State itself is finished.
The difference is just semantic.

ISIS have lost a major battle, but for them the war will go on.


A power vacuum in Northern Syria can only help ISIS/ ISIL/ Daesh ...
 

recedite

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A lot wrong with the post. There is no evidence of Turkey colluding with terrorists....
Did you not see the aerial photos showing queues of oil tankers and trucks at the border leaving the Islamic State and going into Turkey?
With convoys of men and materials going the other way.
 


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