Tusker Irish sea tunnel

DS-09

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Has anybody ever come across the Institute of Engineers of Ireland's "Vision of Transport in Ireland in 2050" in which they propose building a rail link under the Irish sea connecting Ireland to Britain and Europe.
Do you think this is affordable (both as a project, and to keep running in the long run). Would you take a 3.5 hour train to London instead of a flight, and a 5 hour train to Paris?
Before you decide, consider this. Did you know that the Dublin-London route is the busiest air route in Europe, and second in the world? Also could it be that many people would be willing to exchange their plane tickets for a train ticket. Considering that (1) between travel to the airport, (2) having to be in the airport 1.5-2 hours beforehand, (3) another 30-60 minutes between boarding, going through the scanner, walking to your flight port, boarding the plane, and 30 minutes for it to start on the runway, and (4) another possible half an hour trying to get out of the airport on the other side.
This is very stressful and means that a flight to London is probably really 4-5 hours, and about the same for Paris. So would it be better to have an easily accessible International train station in the centre of Dublin (linked up with buses, metro, luas, interconnector etc), which would bring you right into the heart of London or Paris- than all the time and energy that goes into air travel. Simply buy a ticket, show your passport, hop on the train- and enjoy the journey (and the scenery of course).

(p.s. if Michael O Leary is reading, don't worry i'm not running a Tusker tunnel company out to get at the airlines!! :p ;))


 
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DS-09

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here are some links

Tusker Tunnel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BBC NEWS | Wales | South West Wales | Tunnel 'vision' under Irish Sea





ALSO SIMILIAR ARTICLE HERE


Treacy Hogan

Environment

Correspondent

PLANS for a €11bn rail tunnel spanning 60km across the Irish Sea linking Ireland with mainland Europe via Wales were unveiled yesterday.

The high-speed rail link would carry both cars and freight across the channel.

Fed-up business leaders demanded that the Government sign up to the ambitious project as they also lashed out at the poor state of our roads and bad public transportation.

Congestion

Traffic congestion is now costing them heavily in lost sales and late deliveries, they also complained.

The proposed Tuskar Tunnel between Tuskar Rock, Co Wexford, and Pembrokeshire, Wales, could be built by 2025, said the Chambers of Commerce of Ireland (CCI).

It would be part bridge over the Irish sea, and part sub-sea tunnel.

The rail proposal came as the nationwide survey of business people revealed high levels of dissatisfaction with the state of our roads, particularly non-national roads in the west of Ireland.

The business organisation's survey revealed that three-quarters of companies (74pc) felt that a tunnel linking Ireland's road network with continental Europe was vital.

John Dunne, CCI chief executive, said the tunnel would enable Ireland to seize control of its destiny by making the country the port of choice for most pan-European trade.

Super large container vessels were arriving on the scene and these required very deep water.

"We should commence now planning for the design, commissioning and completion of a Tuskar Tunnel, linking Ireland to continental Europe via Wales by 2025," he said.

Ice Age

A similar rail tunnel stretching 18.5km was built between Malmo in Sweden and Copehagen in Denmark at a cost of €3.5bn. That bridge is a combination of over-sea bridge and under-sea tunnel.

The bridge links Denmark and Sweden together for the first time since the Ice Age and now physically links together Sweden and the rest of Western Europe.

The ferry that goes between Malmo and Copenhagen takes three-quarters of an hour while travellers using the bridge can get across in a car in just over ten minutes.

The CCI said yesterday that the Tuskar Tunnel could be built at a conservative estimate of €11bn, but could rise to €15bn. The rail link would cater for freight and car traffic.

Research

Sean Murphy, the body's head of research said: "It isn't that expensive overall. It is a case of build it and they will come to it. We now have the chance to dictate our own future."

The results of the study by the CCI show the vast majority were unhappy with the state of the country's non-national roads.

Over a third (34pc) of companies had delivered goods late to their customers because of congestion.

Four in ten (41pc) were late for a meeting with clients, while over half lost working hours because of increasing traffic delays.

The survey, conducted by MORI Ireland, of 600 business people showed that 70pc were dissatisfied with the standard of non national roads while 40pc were unhappy with the state of national roads.

Dissatisfaction with our roads was highest in the west, where 78pc of companies complained about the non-national roads and 56pc lashed out at the state of the main roads.

Unhappy

According to the survey four out of ten were unhappy with the Government's investement in national roads.

More than half of companies complained that road signs were not adequate.

The organisation called on the Government to publish a definite schedule for the contruction of the proposed Atlantic Roadway, from Letterkenny to Waterford, with a 2011 completion date at the very latest being asked for by members.

Almost one-third of companies surveyed were unhappy with government investment in ports.

More than half were dissatisfied with government investment in passenger and freight rail services.

Some 47pc were unhappy with government investment in airports.
 

EarlyBird

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If you pray hard enough God will deliver. Say a few novenas.
 

DCon

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Great idea if we can outsource the building away from the government/anyone involved in the Port Tunnel.

Imagine the delays and cost increases of the Port Tunnel at this scale.
 

Orando Broom

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Rosslare to Fishguard. Pointless. You'd need a TGV esque trains from Dublin Cork and Galway to make it viable. Then you need the same line running to London.
 
A

Amuppet

It will be built eventually. I'd say about 50 years after everyone stops laughing at the idea.
 

amblincork

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Has everybody forgotten that the company which built the Channel Tunnel essentially went bankrupt ?
 

droghedasouth

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Simpler just to build a port in Milford Haven which can take quite deep vessels if you want to give Western Europe a new container port.

Building it to transport Irish people to the Uk and beyond is absolutely mad.
 
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Gruffalo

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Considering that (1) between travel to the airport,
Do not forget that you would still have to travel to this train station you are talking about.
(2) having to be in the airport 1.5-2 hours beforehand,
If you have carry on luggage you dont have to be there for that long
(3) another 30-60 minutes between boarding, going through the scanner, walking to your flight port, boarding the plane,
That is not another 30-60 minutes. It is part of the time that you have to be there before the flight i.e. it is part of the same time that you talk about in point 1.
and 30 minutes for it to start on the runway,
Where are you getting this 30 minutes from.

(4) another possible half an hour trying to get out of the airport on the other side.


This is very stressful and means that a flight to London is probably really 4-5 hours, and about the same for Paris.
Not if you live within standard commuting distance of the airport.

It takes longer to get to Paris from Dublin than to London to Dublin so they cannot be about the same time.

So would it be better to have an easily accessible International train station in the centre of Dublin (linked up with buses, metro, luas, interconnector etc), which would bring you right into the heart of London or Paris- than all the time and energy that goes into air travel. Simply buy a ticket, show your passport, hop on the train- and enjoy the journey (and the scenery of course).
In the future it might be. Eurostar seems to do very well but it has a much larger population to draw from. There are probably twice as many people in the Greater London area as there are in Ireland.

You have introduced an interesting topic here but your timings for flying are way out and makes it a bit ridiculous.
 

DS-09

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Its been mentioned in the Dail seven times apparently, and never in Westminster. But Gruffalo I did mention in the OP that London-Dublin is the busiest air route in Europe. Also another suggestion was that a deep sea ocean port be built in Shannon (Shannon super port), to cater for large parts of Europe- so the tunnel would also be carrying freight, as well as passengers.
Also I think there are records in the Dail Eireann online archive, relating to the Irish sea tunnel.
 

weepee

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Why would anyone consider building a tunnel in that location. Its 12 miles from County Antrim to Scotland.

Improved rail links to complement the road network heading North, would reduce the price of such a project considerably.
 

He3

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Why would anyone consider building a tunnel in that location. Its 12 miles from County Antrim to Scotland.
Scotland is in the wrong place
 

Gruffalo

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Its been mentioned in the Dail seven times apparently, and never in Westminster. But Gruffalo I did mention in the OP that London-Dublin is the busiest air route in Europe. Also another suggestion was that a deep sea ocean port be built in Shannon (Shannon super port), to cater for large parts of Europe- so the tunnel would also be carrying freight, as well as passengers.
Also I think there are records in the Dail Eireann online archive, relating to the Irish sea tunnel.
I was just saying that your timings were out by a considerable amount and so detract from your point. It is an interesting topic though. I do not see it as being necessary just yet but who knows what the future brings.
 

Gruffalo

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Scotland is in the wrong place
There was actually talk of building a rail tunnel from Liverpool to Dublin last year. Some people in the North West of England seemed keen on the idea.
 

DS-09

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Why would anyone consider building a tunnel in that location. Its 12 miles from County Antrim to Scotland.

Improved rail links to complement the road network heading North, would reduce the price of such a project considerably.

Weepee it wouldn't make sense, because regardless of how close the Mull of Kintyre is to Antrim, it is still too far away from Glasgow or Edinburgh. Also a Dublin-London route via South Wales, including links with Birmingham, Liverpool etc makes more sense than linking up Northern Ireland to Scotland, forcing people in the Southern part of Ireland, or Southern Britain/ Europe to travel all the way up to Scotland, across to Belfast, and down to Dublin again, or vica versa. Also take into consideration the Shannon super port proposal to cater for much of Western Europe's heavy freight- it would make zero sense sending it all the way up to Northern Ireland and into Scotland.
 

anewbeginning

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Has anybody ever come across the Institute of Engineers of Ireland's "Vision of Transport in Ireland in 2050" in which they propose building a rail link under the Irish sea connecting Ireland to Britain and Europe.
Do you think this is affordable (both as a project, and to keep running in the long run). Would you take a 3.5 hour train to London instead of a flight, and a 5 hour train to Paris?
Before you decide, consider this. Did you know that the Dublin-London route is the busiest air route in Europe, and second in the world? Also could it be that many people would be willing to exchange their plane tickets for a train ticket. Considering that (1) between travel to the airport, (2) having to be in the airport 1.5-2 hours beforehand, (3) another 30-60 minutes between boarding, going through the scanner, walking to your flight port, boarding the plane, and 30 minutes for it to start on the runway, and (4) another possible half an hour trying to get out of the airport on the other side.
This is very stressful and means that a flight to London is probably really 4-5 hours, and about the same for Paris. So would it be better to have an easily accessible International train station in the centre of Dublin (linked up with buses, metro, luas, interconnector etc), which would bring you right into the heart of London or Paris- than all the time and energy that goes into air travel. Simply buy a ticket, show your passport, hop on the train- and enjoy the journey (and the scenery of course).

(p.s. if Michael O Leary is reading, don't worry i'm not running a Tusker tunnel company out to get at the airlines!! :p ;))


It's a good idea and I'd be in favour of it.

I'd say we would get much of the funding for it from the EU. At a guess I'd say it would cost 10 billion. If we got 5 billion from Europe and 2.5 billion from Britain and we put up the other 2.5 billion, that shoud cover it.

It would increase tourism between both countries and that alone would make it pay for itself. Given that you have to check in 2 hours before most flights, a train journey wouldn't be that much longer, especially if it was a high speed train.

However, I would never like to see it happen while FF are in power. The cost would increase exponentially and after spending a couple of billion on surveys and studies, they would say it cannot be done. Their record on major projects is poor.

Now would be the time to start planning and building it as we will reach peak oil in a few years and the technology to replace conventional fossil based jet fuel is a long way off. Once we run out of jet fuel it's back to ground based systems of transport and electrical trains.
 
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joel

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What has the condition of roads in the West of Ireland to do with a possible tunnel? Are they crazy?
 

seabhcan

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Howth to Holyhead would be a more logical route as there are largish centers of population nearish both ends - and we should consider the journey time from Dublin to Manchester and Liverpool, rather than more distant London. The main problem with the high speed train line idea is that it would only be high speed over the bridge. Once the train got to Britain, it would be back on slow unreliable British train lines. It took them 15 years to build the high speed line from the Channel tunnel to London, after all.

But I wonder if anyone had considered a road bridge instead of a tunnel? The Irish sea is actually quite shallow. Its almost all less than 80m deep.
 


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