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UK - Constitutional Crisis and standing in the World

Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,622
This is not a Brexit discussion but follows on from the vote.

UK politicians as much as they claim they wanted exit really want a way to do whatever they wanted while reaping the benefits of EU membership.

Sold on the basis we will control our borders in the hours after the vote this was shown to be a bunch of straw.

UK Political establishment faces a Constitutional Dilema with no outcome proving positive.

Uk Parliament follows through on the exit then it will find The City gets locked out from many Financial deals as the square mile earners are huge tax payers both in Income tax and VAT as they use their not considerable disposable income. Job losses hurt more because a single 150k job pays same amount of Income tax as 25 minimum wage earners BUT someone on £150k spends more on luxury goods than people on minimum wage.

Already 2 parties are tearing themselves asunder with it and quite possibly a new party may emerge.

UK Parliament can also ignore creating a schism between those who want out and remain. Again both parties will tear themselves asunder.

UK can of course not invoke the exit clause BUT in doing so it has no negotiation stance as nobody believes it and threats are ignored.

Measure of comments made to me clearly indicate many believe a small remain win would be better as then have a negotiating position.

It now finds itself having other countries ignoring it and Scots seeking independence which could mean Torys are the one's who dissolve the UK.

UK is in constitutional crises mode with existing PM exiting and nobody really clear of any program for the future.

Nature abhors a vacumn and in UK at the moment there is one with no constitutional precedent.
 


Lumpy Talbot

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Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
26,239
Twitter
No
UK politicians as much as they claim they wanted exit really want a way to do whatever they wanted while reaping the benefits of EU membership.
Name me a country within the EU which can be said to be any different. Selfless, dedicated to the EU at cost to themselves. Many spout the rhetoric but that is not the reality.

UK Political establishment faces a Constitutional Dilema with no outcome proving positive.
What's with all the incorrectly placed capital letters? I can think of a few positive outcomes. The fact that you can't see any is not an indication that positive outcomes don't exist.

Uk Parliament follows through on the exit then it will find The City gets locked out from many Financial deals as the square mile earners are huge tax payers both in Income tax and VAT as they use their not considerable disposable income. Job losses hurt more because a single 150k job pays same amount of Income tax as 25 minimum wage earners BUT someone on £150k spends more on luxury goods than people on minimum wage.
Complete b*ollocks. Most theoretical high rate taxpayers in London pay next to naff all income tax or VAT that isn't immediately clawed back by their accountants. And as for the city being 'locked out' the $226 billion Canadian asset management firm Manulife has just set up a London office to manage their European business in the last two weeks.

Already 2 parties are tearing themselves asunder with it and quite possibly a new party may emerge.
It is unlikely to be Fianna Fail.

UK Parliament can also ignore creating a schism between those who want out and remain. Again both parties will tear themselves asunder.

UK can of course not invoke the exit clause BUT in doing so it has no negotiation stance as nobody believes it and threats are ignored.
The French and the Germans are kicking themselves they didn't put a time limit on an exit clause. London doesn't have to press the button on activation of clause 50 until it decides to do so. I'd say that is a fairly good stance considering the Germans and French have been hopping up and down since the referendum demanding a quick exit- which London can and will afford to ignore until the time is right for London.

Measure of comments made to me clearly indicate many believe a small remain win would be better as then have a negotiating position.
Like the great negotiating position Ireland found itself in after Lisbon II? Do spell out the huge concessions Ireland gained when it voted 'in'.

It now finds itself having other countries ignoring it and Scots seeking independence which could mean Torys are the one's who dissolve the UK.
Actually no that would probably be Scottish voters from a practical point of view. Very few of whom are Tories.

UK is in constitutional crises mode with existing PM exiting and nobody really clear of any program for the future.
Are you just regurgitating some article you have read?

Nature abhors a vacumn and in UK at the moment there is one with no constitutional precedent.
There aren't that many constitutional crises in the UK to be honest. Probably because they don't actually have a constitution. If you mean precedent well there would be a number of situations where there was cause for alarm at privy council level but until such time as article 50 is invoked the UK is actually in the EU.

Which leaves Scotland seeking meetings in Brussels which they won't get because they want to debate an issue that doesn't legally yet exist.
 

gleeful

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
7,520
The country wont live through this mess. These are the dying months of the UK.
 

Dame_Enda

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Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
52,653
1940 showed there is something honourable and necessary in standing alone for a just cause.
 

DT123

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Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
14,145
Fair play lumpy for being arsed to reply to that pile of rubbish.
 

gleeful

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Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
7,520
Name me a country within the EU which can be said to be any different. Selfless, dedicated to the EU at cost to themselves. Many spout the rhetoric but that is not the reality.



What's with all the incorrectly placed capital letters? I can think of a few positive outcomes. The fact that you can't see any is not an indication that positive outcomes don't exist.



Complete b*ollocks. Most theoretical high rate taxpayers in London pay next to naff all income tax or VAT that isn't immediately clawed back by their accountants. And as for the city being 'locked out' the $226 billion Canadian asset management firm Manulife has just set up a London office to manage their European business in the last two weeks.



It is unlikely to be Fianna Fail.



The French and the Germans are kicking themselves they didn't put a time limit on an exit clause. London doesn't have to press the button on activation of clause 50 until it decides to do so. I'd say that is a fairly good stance considering the Germans and French have been hopping up and down since the referendum demanding a quick exit- which London can and will afford to ignore until the time is right for London.



Like the great negotiating position Ireland found itself in after Lisbon II? Do spell out the huge concessions Ireland gained when it voted 'in'.



Actually no that would probably be Scottish voters from a practical point of view. Very few of whom are Tories.



Are you just regurgitating some article you have read?



There aren't that many constitutional crises in the UK to be honest. Probably because they don't actually have a constitution. If you mean precedent well there would be a number of situations where there was cause for alarm at privy council level but until such time as article 50 is invoked the UK is actually in the EU.

Which leaves Scotland seeking meetings in Brussels which they won't get because they want to debate an issue that doesn't legally yet exist.
If the UK never invokes Article 50 they will stay in a painful ecomonic limbo - depressed investment, bleeding jobs, probably endless recession.

That recession will make political domands to push the button and get those amazing benefits from Brexit the people were promised.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,622
What's with all the incorrectly placed capital letters? I can think of a few positive outcomes. The fact that you can't see any is not an indication that positive outcomes don't exist.
Name them then

Complete b*ollocks. Most theoretical high rate taxpayers in London pay next to naff all income tax or VAT that isn't immediately clawed back by their accountants. And as for the city being 'locked out' the $226 billion Canadian asset management firm Manulife has just set up a London office to manage their European business in the last two weeks.
150k is not a high wage in City of London and as for reclaiming all that tax and vat, show how rather than just BS


The French and the Germans are kicking themselves they didn't put a time limit on an exit clause. London doesn't have to press the button on activation of clause 50 until it decides to do so. I'd say that is a fairly good stance considering the Germans and French have been hopping up and down since the referendum demanding a quick exit- which London can and will afford to ignore until the time is right for London.
Not in the slightest because the 2 major UK parties are pulling themselves to pieces and 16 plus million voters aren't going to stay quiet.

UK politicians have no Plan B.


There aren't that many constitutional crises in the UK to be honest. Probably because they don't actually have a constitution. If you mean precedent well there would be a number of situations where there was cause for alarm at privy council level but until such time as article 50 is invoked the UK is actually in the EU.

Which leaves Scotland seeking meetings in Brussels which they won't get because they want to debate an issue that doesn't legally yet exist.
UK has had enough of them but now with losing PM and Leader of opposition and no clear direction while a part seeks to break away it really is a crisis they keeping quiet on.

Rest of EU sitting and laughing because UK Parliament can try and ignore something the majority of MPs in its ruling party are in favour of.

Funny as fc uk to watch because UK can't threaten EU with anything because EU doesn't care as they have already decided to leave.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,622
If the UK never invokes Article 50 they will stay in a painful ecomonic limbo - depressed investment, bleeding jobs, probably endless recession.

That recession will make political domands to push the button and get those amazing benefits from Brexit the people were promised.
UK can't hold the prospect of leaving over the EU or claim they are going to quit..................... got nowt to negotiate with.

As for the amazing benefits......................... keep waiting to hear what they are now UK has voted to remain.

Looks like the 350 Million to NHS doesn't exist, well it never did.
Stopping Immigration................. er 50% is non EU anyway and even leave stating not changing free movement.

Car crash in action and seeing UK pull itself asunder is history in the making.

Cameron claims doing so much to preserve the Union and reality is he has done more to destroy it than anybody.
 

gleeful

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
7,520
The UK does have a Constitution.. it is part written, part unwritten, quite vague in content. But it exists, albeit uncodified.

That is all.
Its a bizarre idea that an unwritten constitution exists. Its like saying an unfilmed movie exists or an unpainted painting.

Someday I hope my novel wins the Booker prize. Its unwritten, but that shouldn't be an issue.
 

Peppermint

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
7,378
This is not a Brexit discussion but follows on from the vote.

UK politicians as much as they claim they wanted exit really want a way to do whatever they wanted while reaping the benefits of EU membership.

Sold on the basis we will control our borders in the hours after the vote this was shown to be a bunch of straw.

UK Political establishment faces a Constitutional Dilema with no outcome proving positive.

Uk Parliament follows through on the exit then it will find The City gets locked out from many Financial deals as the square mile earners are huge tax payers both in Income tax and VAT as they use their not considerable disposable income. Job losses hurt more because a single 150k job pays same amount of Income tax as 25 minimum wage earners BUT someone on £150k spends more on luxury goods than people on minimum wage.

Already 2 parties are tearing themselves asunder with it and quite possibly a new party may emerge.

UK Parliament can also ignore creating a schism between those who want out and remain. Again both parties will tear themselves asunder.

UK can of course not invoke the exit clause BUT in doing so it has no negotiation stance as nobody believes it and threats are ignored.

Measure of comments made to me clearly indicate many believe a small remain win would be better as then have a negotiating position.

It now finds itself having other countries ignoring it and Scots seeking independence which could mean Torys are the one's who dissolve the UK.

UK is in constitutional crises mode with existing PM exiting and nobody really clear of any program for the future.

Nature abhors a vacumn and in UK at the moment there is one with no constitutional precedent.
What is your point??
What are you trying to say???

Or should we consider this a blog post rant?
 

sgtharper

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
10,740
The country wont live through this mess. These are the dying months of the UK.
If you haven't already done so, go and lie down in a darkened room for a few hours, you're talking utter rubbish again.
 

sgtharper

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
10,740
The UK and Yugoslavia will be mentioned in the same breath within 2 years.
Make that a few days, weeks even, in a darkened room, and don't call us, we'll call you.
 

Vega1447

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
5,685
Stop with this "alone " bs , the USA saved Britain , it may have to step in and save it again
The Soviet Union saved the world.

The US played a very important role in WW2 but the Soviets killed the Nazis..
 

Lumpy Talbot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
26,239
Twitter
No
If the UK never invokes Article 50 they will stay in a painful ecomonic limbo - depressed investment, bleeding jobs, probably endless recession.

That recession will make political domands to push the button and get those amazing benefits from Brexit the people were promised.
The painful economic limbo you refer to currently sees the FTSE at a ten month high. London is also the financial centre for two primary service sector industries- the hedgefunding sector and the private equity sector. Neither those two sectors nor the fund management sector are likely to be affected by the current status of the UK as they primarily manage large funds which are administered from London but registered as funds offshore which won't be affected Brexit either now or under the invocation of article 50 of the Lisbon agreement.

As for foreign investment in London or inflow of foreign wealth into London both major Russian and Chinese money flows won't be affected one way or another by the UK's membership of the EU as the money flows into London because of UK law's protection of property rights and not because of any connection with EU membership.
 


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