UK opts for more Europe. Brexit on hold?

gleeful

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Donald Tusk is complaining that the UK isn't doing a thing about moving Brexit forward. UKIP claim that May is stalling. And in the meantime, the UK has just opted in to a new bit of EU unity - the single EU patent system.

Heard of Brexit? The UK vows to join Europe

Of note is the fact that this new court system is only open to EU states and there is no foreseeable way the UK could be a member post Brexit. So why decide to join now?

Is Brexit just a scam? Is the May government secretly planning to dump the whole thing in the new year?
 


Lumpy Talbot

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No
Might also be explained by pointing out that while the UK is a member then everything proceeds normally.

Even if that means adopting a baby and then throwing it, the bathwater and indeed the bath itself out six months later.

It is a process and not some kind of air-raid.
 

gleeful

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Might also be explained by pointing out that while the UK is a member then everything proceeds normally.

Even if that means adopting a baby and then throwing it, the bathwater and indeed the bath itself out six months later.

It is a process and not some kind of air-raid.
Except the UK opted in to this. They had no obligation to join. And while they are a member they are subject to the hated law of the EU courts - which even May claims to want to throw off.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Except the UK opted in to this. They had no obligation to join.
They are still covered by EU Data Protection legislation as well and I think the General Data Protection Regulation is still going into force according to the Information Commissioner's Office in the UK.

You dont just abandon all paperwork that was under discussion and walk away from it with a shrug. Much of what the UK has fed into in terms of regulation will most likely be kept except underpinned by UK law rather than EU Directive.
 

gleeful

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They are still covered by EU Data Protection legislation as well and I think the General Data Protection Regulation is still going into force according to the Information Commissioner's Office in the UK.

You dont just abandon all paperwork that was under discussion and walk away from it with a shrug. Much of what the UK has fed into in terms of regulation will most likely be kept except underpinned by UK law rather than EU Directive.
Some can be kept in UK law but a single EU-wide patent system cannot. The only way the UK can remain in the single patent system is if they are subject to EU courts to enforce EU patent law.
 
O

Oscurito

A letter from Donald Tusk with more than a hint of derision at the silly point from UK parliamentarians that he's had to address.

 

Socratus O' Pericles

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"It is a very interesting argument".................. is always a top class zinger.
 

Spanner Island

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Donald Tusk is complaining that the UK isn't doing a thing about moving Brexit forward. UKIP claim that May is stalling. And in the meantime, the UK has just opted in to a new bit of EU unity - the single EU patent system.

Heard of Brexit? The UK vows to join Europe

Of note is the fact that this new court system is only open to EU states and there is no foreseeable way the UK could be a member post Brexit. So why decide to join now?

Is Brexit just a scam? Is the May government secretly planning to dump the whole thing in the new year?
Regardless of the patent court... I really don't know wtf the Brits are up to...

'Having their cake and eating it' seems to be the goal... according to 'notes' that were left blatantly visible outside No.10....

Oh yeah... and targeting the French... FFS :roll:

It's pretty obvious at this stage that the UK Government haven't a f***ing clue what they're doing and that possibly their only strategy (given that they have to respect the vote and leave) is to provoke hostility from the EU so that when they make a total balls of everything they'll still be able to blame the big bad EU... because that's what they do because that's what they've done for over 40 years...

The EU should do nothing until A50 is triggered... because it seems to be amateur year in the UK with a load of childish games being played in the absence of any real plan at all at all...
 

livingstone

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Donald Tusk is complaining that the UK isn't doing a thing about moving Brexit forward. UKIP claim that May is stalling. And in the meantime, the UK has just opted in to a new bit of EU unity - the single EU patent system.

Heard of Brexit? The UK vows to join Europe

Of note is the fact that this new court system is only open to EU states and there is no foreseeable way the UK could be a member post Brexit. So why decide to join now?

Is Brexit just a scam? Is the May government secretly planning to dump the whole thing in the new year?
The patent court couldn't have gone ahead without the UK ratifying it. What's more, one branch of the court is to be based in London.

Not ratifying would have delayed the whole thing from proceeding for 2+ years, pissing off other states. A core principle of any negotiation is that pissing off your negotiating partner should be retained for things you actually care about.

There would have been no reason to block the UPC. The U.K. has been supportive of it. It may also decide to seek continued membership of it from outside the EU in negotiations (it would need a change in rules but not impossible since extending the UPC to the UK would be in other states interest too.

Simple answer - don't waste negotiating capital pissing people off for no reason.
 

gleeful

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The patent court couldn't have gone ahead without the UK ratifying it. What's more, one branch of the court is to be based in London.

Not ratifying would have delayed the whole thing from proceeding for 2+ years, pissing off other states. A core principle of any negotiation is that pissing off your negotiating partner should be retained for things you actually care about.

There would have been no reason to block the UPC. The U.K. has been supportive of it. It may also decide to seek continued membership of it from outside the EU in negotiations (it would need a change in rules but not impossible since extending the UPC to the UK would be in other states interest too.

Simple answer - don't waste negotiating capital pissing people off for no reason.
Whats happening to the London based court? Dublin should offer it a home.
 

livingstone

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Whats happening to the London based court? Dublin should offer it a home.
It's establishment will continue in London.

It's future post Brexit would be an issue for negotiation - there's every possibility that the UK could seek to participate in the UPC from outside the EU.
 

gleeful

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It's establishment will continue in London.

It's future post Brexit would be an issue for negotiation - there's every possibility that the UK could seek to participate in the UPC from outside the EU.
The only way they could do that is if they are subject to EU law - all EU law, including the bits they don't like.
 

livingstone

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The only way they could do that is if they are subject to EU law - all EU law, including the bits they don't like.
Not necessarily - you don't need free movement of people, for example, for a unified patent. As long as the UK accepted EU law on intellectual property all the rest is really a matter of negotiation.

The point is that being in now means:

1. You don't piss people off unnecessarily now who you need in negotiations next year.

2. The London court proceeds, for now at least.

3. There is at least an option of negotiating continued membership, which would be easier that trying to negotiate new membership as a non-EU country if the UPC is established after Brexit.

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of argument that the UKs interests are served by blocking the UPC for another two years.
 

Equinox

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So they've agreed to be part of something mutually beneficial but pissed all over stuff like the ECJ and open boarders etc which is decidedly not mutually beneficial, at least not when you want to deport failed asylum seekers and terrorists.
I don't see the OPs point, unless his point is to huff like Donald Tusk about the UK not meeting some arbitrary deadline to exit that he thinks they should meet and yet have no obligation to do so.
Well if Donald is hoping they'll wear sackcloth and ashes for him, they wont, like EU patents, they are simply doing what is best for them, waiting till there's a conservative anglophile in the elysees palace and Merkel's not worried about the election any more so she can (if she survives) behave in a reasonable manner that doesn't require pretending to play hardball for the electorate, in other words, they'll exit when it suits the Brits and in their own damn time. That's just so clueless of them!
 
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gleeful

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So they've agreed to be part of something mutually beneficial but pissed all over stuff like the ECJ etc which is decidedly not mutually beneficial, at least not when you want to deport failed asylum seekers and terrorists.
I don't see the OPs point, unless his point is to huff like Donald Tusk about the UK not meeting some arbitrary deadline to exit that he thinks they should meet.
Well they wont, like EU patents, they are simply doing what is best for them, waiting till there's a conservative anglophile in the elysees palace and Merkel's not worried about the election any more and can behave in a reasonable manner that doesn't require pretending to play hardball for the electorate, in other words, when it suits the Brits and in their own damn time. That's just so clueless of them!
This completely misunderstands two key issues:

1. Neither France nor Germany are ever or can ever do a deal that the UKip/Troy nutter crowd want.
2. No one in the UK knows what they want.
 

livingstone

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This completely misunderstands two key issues:

1. Neither France nor Germany are ever or can ever do a deal that the UKip/Troy nutter crowd want.
2. No one in the UK knows what they want.
But that doesn't amount to an argument that they should block the UPC for the next two years, which is what you seem to be arguing for?
 

Watcher2

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Donald Tusk is complaining that the UK isn't doing a thing about moving Brexit forward. UKIP claim that May is stalling. And in the meantime, the UK has just opted in to a new bit of EU unity - the single EU patent system.

Heard of Brexit? The UK vows to join Europe

Of note is the fact that this new court system is only open to EU states and there is no foreseeable way the UK could be a member post Brexit. So why decide to join now?

Is Brexit just a scam? Is the May government secretly planning to dump the whole thing in the new year?
Of course. I have said it all along, Britain is not going to leave.
 

Equinox

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This completely misunderstands two key issues:

1. Neither France nor Germany are ever or can ever do a deal that the UKip/Troy nutter crowd want.
2. No one in the UK knows what they want.
1) When haven't the EU done what France and Germany decide.

2)Hence the talks, committees and negociations, to hammer out what they want, it's complex and it will take time, Tusk can toddle off until the UK make their choices instead of hovering over them like some impatient waiter. Go get me a glass of wine Donald while I peruse the menu some more you little toad.

Sure, the UK could have been more honest with the electorate about what they can get. It's unfortunate that Thatcher couldn't get them out, with the EU currently looking like a drunk on a tightrope, they knows that any concessions are likely to raise an eyebrow amongst the unwashed masses that have got a whole lot more EU then they ever expected. Concessions are dangerous to the longevity of the EU project if there's a hint of a prospect that the plebs should have a say in it.
Like any divorce, May needs to explain, nobody ever ends up financially better off afterwards, but consider the other option, trapped in a loveless, dysfunctional marriage in which both loose anyway. Choose your own happiness and move forward. Sadly the EU are behaving like some irrational angry a-hole that just got served by his wife's lawyer and is determined to punish her 'betrayal' by squabbling over the feckin' CD collection and who keeps the good delft.
 

Watcher2

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They are still covered by EU Data Protection legislation as well and I think the General Data Protection Regulation is still going into force according to the Information Commissioner's Office in the UK.

You dont just abandon all paperwork that was under discussion and walk away from it with a shrug. Much of what the UK has fed into in terms of regulation will most likely be kept except underpinned by UK law rather than EU Directive.
Except that DP is an obligation on all member states. You can opt out. This patent system though is a voluntary system from what I gather. DP provisions and the EU Patent System is not like for like ibn this context.
 


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