ULA - The alternative left showing the first fractures?

D

Duth Ealla

I have seen a report that the at the Budget protest yesterday that the ULA held a separate protest to the Socialist Workers Party-Right To Work protest because the SWP/RTW allowed Labour Youth involvement. This was regarded as too much for the Socialist Party who couldnt accept that. As was noted in the report its odd that once the Socialist Party felt Labour was suitable for infiltration but now they cannot even be allowed to attend the same rally.

Some obvious questions would be

(1) Who can substantiate or refute the story?

(2) Does this reflect inherent flaws or agreed points of difference.

(3) Is the early exposure of such differences over what is in reality a hill of beans portend for a speedy end of the ULA after the election when matters more weighty than Labour Youth are discussed.

(4) Does exclusion of political parties benefit the left alliance in any way. Are the SP not making a mistake by seeking to be bigger fish in a small pond?
 


D

Duth Ealla

Gobun

that makes no sense seeing as how the fracture was amongst socialists unless you are arguing their inherent "irishness" (a concept which might appall many of them) or their geographical location had caused the fracture.

If you are arguing that socialism is not a concept that can reasonate with Irish people I think you are sorely mistaken.

You state " socialist" though - if your point is that Socialism's growth in Ireland is being hindered by Socialists (specifically their approach) then I think you are closer to the truth.
 
Last edited:

cluainsaileach

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Interesting side bar. A SP member was selling "Joe Higgins socialist party paper" can the paper not stand on it's own? Its definitely a case of the "joe show" I've always believed that the SP will wither when he retires. It's a small northside of dublin party( again built up by Joe) with small group of individuals in a smattering of areas. I've great respect for Claire daly, a great worker. But Joe, Ruth copponger and Matt waine lost all my respect when they opposed a drug treatment centre on coolmine.
 
D

Duth Ealla

Sounds like an OP troll thread then.
no its not a troll thread. I wouldnt bother doing that. If i had a point to pick with the SP or SWP I have enough points of difference with both to explore without having to resort to fantasy.

Its from a leftwing source. I choose to leave them out because I didnt really think it was necessary but its from the look left facebook magazine facebook page who made a fairly reasonable call for better unity and a more comradely approach. I found much of what was commented there reasonable and actually am glad to see Left wing movements talking about such things in a reasoned and self-challenging debate.
 

antiestablishmentarian

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First off, where did you hear the report? Second, RTW and the SWP aren't affiliates to the ULA: the PBPA, SP, and TUWAG are the 3 affiliated groups who are members of the ULA.
 

Toland

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The first item on the agenda is ...

There's plenty of historical grumpiness between the SP and Labour Youth (even though the personnel in LY have changed three or four times since the Militant Tendency (the SP precursor) were unceremoniously and entirely correctly kicked out of LY and the Labour Party.

bless
 

Kill Bill

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I have seen a report that the at the Budget protest yesterday that the ULA held a separate protest to the Socialist Workers Party-Right To Work protest because the SWP/RTW allowed Labour Youth involvement. This was regarded as too much for the Socialist Party who couldnt accept that. As was noted in the report its odd that once the Socialist Party felt Labour was suitable for infiltration but now they cannot even be allowed to attend the same rally.

Some obvious questions would be

(1) Who can substantiate or refute the story?

(2) Does this reflect inherent flaws or agreed points of difference.

(3) Is the early exposure of such differences over what is in reality a hill of beans portend for a speedy end of the ULA after the election when matters more weighty than Labour Youth are discussed.

(4) Does exclusion of political parties benefit the left alliance in any way. Are the SP not making a mistake by seeking to be bigger fish in a small pond?
From what I belive the ULA is an alliance - it is not a homogenous organisation. It is a number of groups who have come together to provide a primarily electoral alternative to the left of Labour and Sinn Fein.

Obviously there are differences politically and tactially. The SWP/PBPA are quite soft on Labour particularly Boyd Barrett who is hoping Gilmore's transfers will get him in to the Dail The other groups in the alliance would be harder on Labour.

Right to Work is an SWP front. The SP are not affiliated hence they are generally precluded form speaking. I don't think the separate protest were anything to do with Labour speaking - the SP would have no in put into the RTW protest.

I don't think the different protests last night illustarte fractures but obviously fractures will emerge in the future. There are signifcant political differences between the SP and the SWP which will not go away and as they are the decisive components in the ULA then differences are inevitabe.

I thought it was unreal to have Labour speaking at the protest given their commitment to cuts and incredibly their absolute insistence that they will reverse none of the cuts.
 
D

Duth Ealla

First off, where did you hear the report? Second, RTW and the SWP aren't affiliates to the ULA: the PBPA, SP, and TUWAG are the 3 affiliated groups who are members of the ULA.
PBPA are in but SWP arent?

See above for the source.

As i noted its open to substantiation or refutation
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Technically speaking the Left is anyone or group who is against the current status quo. Now that in these crazy days is an enormous group of people from many schools of political thought across the spectrum.

I think the Lisbon No voters highlighted how diverse this group is. Anyone who seen Life of Brian would have seen how Monty Python illustrated effectively in a satirical manner how dissenters can end up despising each other more than the status quo they are fighting (Judean people's front V the People's Front of Judea).

We need more direct democracy in this country, encourage more people to debate this either online or more preferably in townhalls. Personally speaking, I would have a lot more time for discussing and debating the best solution for society with Marxists, rather than any of them Keynesians and Neo Liberal Statist tramps that have brought civilisation to its knees.
 
D

Duth Ealla

From what I belive the ULA is an alliance - it is not a homogenous organisation. It is a number of groups who have come together to provide a primarily electoral alternative to the left of Labour and Sinn Fein.

Obviously there are differences politically and tactially. The SWP/PBPA are quite soft on Labour particularly Boyd Barrett who is hoping Gilmore's transfers will get him in to the Dail The other groups in the alliance would be harder on Labour.

Right to Work is an SWP front. The SP are not affiliated hence they are generally precluded form speaking. I don't think the separate protest were anything to do with Labour speaking - the SP would have no in put into the RTW protest.

I don't think the different protests last night illustarte fractures but obviously fractures will emerge in the future. There are signifcant political differences between the SP and the SWP which will not go away and as they are the decisive components in the ULA then differences are inevitabe.

I thought it was unreal to have Labour speaking at the protest given their commitment to cuts and incredibly their absolute insistence that they will reverse none of the cuts.
cheers Bill informative post.
 

cluainsaileach

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Messages
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From what I belive the ULA is an alliance - it is not a homogenous organisation. It is a number of groups who have come together to provide a primarily electoral alternative to the left of Labour and Sinn Fein.

Obviously there are differences politically and tactially. The SWP/PBPA are quite soft on Labour particularly Boyd Barrett who is hoping Gilmore's transfers will get him in to the Dail The other groups in the alliance would be harder on Labour.

Right to Work is an SWP front. The SP are not affiliated hence they are generally precluded form speaking. I don't think the separate protest were anything to do with Labour speaking - the SP would have no in put into the RTW protest.

I don't think the different protests last night illustarte fractures but obviously fractures will emerge in the future. There are signifcant political differences between the SP and the SWP which will not go away and as they are the decisive components in the ULA then differences are inevitabe.

I thought it was unreal to have Labour speaking at the protest given their commitment to cuts and incredibly their absolute insistence that they will reverse none of the cuts.
Agree with the idea of labour youth having a real hard neck turning up considering gilmore has stated clearly on the late late show he will implement FFs budget.
 

neutral_lurker

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PbPA is the SWP-or a front organisation.

I know someone involved with PBPA and they weren't happy at SWP's involvement- I think they fund the PBPA's candidates but someone more closely involved to the organisation can confirm that.
 

redhead101

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Second, RTW and the SWP aren't affiliates to the ULA: the PBPA, SP, and TUWAG are the 3 affiliated groups who are members of the ULA.
Trying to get this straight. SWP is not affiliated to ULA, but PBPA is?

Is SWP not affiliated to PBPA? If so, they are happy to be indirectly affiliated to ULA, but are opposed to being direclty affiliated.

It's all very confusing!

Those Trots. You couldn't be up to them.
 

redhead101

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It is a number of groups who have come together to provide a primarily electoral alternative to the left of Labour and Sinn Fein.
Rather than an electoral alternative to the right of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael? Hmm. Interesting
 

citizen pat

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Are Sinn Fein on the left?

Are Sinn Fein now considered a left wing party?
 

Chrisco

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I have seen a report that the at the Budget protest yesterday that the ULA held a separate protest to the Socialist Workers Party-Right To Work protest because the SWP/RTW allowed Labour Youth involvement. This was regarded as too much for the Socialist Party who couldnt accept that. As was noted in the report its odd that once the Socialist Party felt Labour was suitable for infiltration but now they cannot even be allowed to attend the same rally.

Some obvious questions would be

(1) Who gives a toss?
Fixed that for ya.
 


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