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Ulster-Scots: a language or a dialect


Marx

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Mar 5, 2004
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www.labour.ie
http://www.ulsterscotsagency.com/home.asp

I came across the Ulster Scots agency website and listened to the audio files which sounded to me like some weird form of English

The question
Is Ulster Scots a language of its own or just a dialect of English


THE SECOND HAN COMPUTER

The weans sez, get a computer Da,
So we can gw' on the net,
Sez I ye'll hae tae wait a wee,
They micht get chaper yet,
 

Rochey

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May 20, 2004
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I heard on a television programme a good while ago that it (quite uniquely) can be regarded as both a language and a dialect, having met the standard characteristics of both. It does, apparently, qualify as a language
 

Sidewinder

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Oct 23, 2004
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It's English spoken in a Ballymena accent, heavily sprinkled with local colloquialisms like "thran", "fornenst" etc - many of which are used across the north.

It's like saying traditional Dublinese should be considered a "language" because it's a distinct accent heavily sprinkled with colloqualisms like "mot", "childer" and "gaf".
 

setanta

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Apr 2, 2004
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All human communication is language of course, but as far as Ulster-Scots goes it is a dialect of English. It's very close to lowland scots, the language of Burns, for which no claim is made for it being anything other than an English dialect.

However, there's probably little point in waving issues of language status around. If throwing a few euros its way keps the crazies quiet, then it's probably money well spent.
 

sean1

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If its a dialect its more of Scot's Gaelic, or Irish, that it is of English. However, it needs money to promote itself and coin new terminology and words. Hence it borrows a lot from English. It would make more sense linguistically and historically to borrow them from Irish or Scot's Gaelic.

That there is any demand for the promotion of Ulster Scots, outside of a handful of people within the Unionist community, remains to be seen a mon avis.
 

Marx

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sean1 said:
If its a dialect its more of Scot's Gaelic, or Irish, that it is of English. .
Your totally wrong its orgins are English (Germanic) it has no connection to Scots-Gaelic or Irish which are Celtic. Some of it can actually be understood through english
 

Sidewinder

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Marx said:
Some of it can actually be understood through english
All of it can be understood "through English" as long as you're used to thick rural Ulster accents and know rural Ulster slang.

This linguistic feat is possible, amazingly enough, because "Ulster-Scots" is, well, English as she is spake in rural Ulster.
 

Decko

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Jun 17, 2004
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its not a language or a dialect its a joke

apperently road sign in Ulster Scots were painted above the English language version in parts of East Belfast - the next day loyalists had scrubbed them out thinking they were as gaeilge
 

Nils

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Mar 20, 2004
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I found a website for a body called the Ulster-Scots Agency. HereLiam Logan takes a wry look at Ulster-Scots words and phrases and their often humourous meanings.

Including:

You say "potato", I say "proota"

and, my favourite:

Liam reveals it's better to be "ready for oot" than "ooty o the wie o".
 

michael1965

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Oct 4, 2005
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There was an ad in the Belfast Telegraph a couple of years ago advertising the position of CEO of the Ulster Scots agency. The ad was printed in English and Ulster Scots. If you saw this ad, and compared the sober sounding English with the hilarious sounding Ulster-Scots, you'd certainly think that someone is taking the mick here.
 

merle haggard

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Marx said:
sean1 said:
If its a dialect its more of Scot's Gaelic, or Irish, that it is of English. .
Your totally wrong its orgins are English (Germanic) it has no connection to Scots-Gaelic or Irish which are Celtic. Some of it can actually be understood through english
99% of it can be understood through english because it is english ffs
 

pogo

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A language is a dialect that waves a flag.

Hasn't anyone else come across this quotation :?:
 

Ronanr

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A language is a dialect that waves a flag.
I have heard of that quote pogo. I have also heard it said that "a language is just a dialect with an army". And at the moment Ulster Scots deems to have a flag and an army.

But linguists have come up with methods of analysing dialects to see of they qualify for the title of a separate language or not. (I am sure that getting a genuinely empirical, unbiased way of doing this is very difficult, though).

And I believe that when Ulster Scots is examined from this viewpoint, it usually appears to be a dialect (of English) rather than a separate language.

But when you have a "flag" all the linguistic analysis in th world seems to wilt before this, and it gets the funding regardless!
 

merle haggard

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no , it derives from the scots settlers who came mainly from the lowlands and borders where English was the dominant language . it isnt connected to gaelic in the slightest . its an english dialect .

until 1994 when the peace funds were getting divvied out it was simply known as a Ballymena accent . I have a gaggle of cousins from a certain area who complain they have apparently spoken ulster scots all their lives and were unaware of it , thinking they spoke english . They cant figure out how to get a massive fcuk off grant for it unfortunately .
 

socialite

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A dialect is a complete system of verbal communication with its own vocabulary and/or grammar. (wikipedia). Ulster Scots has neither. its just an accent
if ulster scots is a language/dialect, then ''yerra, we brought a flashk a tae down to the bog'' could also be classed as one
 

Unionist

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Eww Kerry! :roll:

Ulstee Scots/Scots is its own language..........I mean I can hardly understand Scots when they speak English.....Imagine what it must sound like...
 

coconut

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Dec 4, 2005
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How is Ulster Scots its own language? It's a thick accent, a dialect at most. Calling it its own language is insane.

Can you explain why English speakers are automatically able to understand Ulster Scots? I'll let Dr. Merle explain.

merle haggard said:
99% of it can be understood through english because it is english ffs
 

socialite

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Unionist said:
Eww Kerry! :roll:
hmm...thats the best youve got eh? i wouldnt mind if you tried to make a reasonable argument ...just shows you doesnt it.
 
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