UN Human Development Index. Vindication for the free market.

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,160
Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)

Yes indeed folks at this time when the nabobs of negativity from Tehran to Beijing to Caracas and spanning the gamut of micro groups from lovers of the mass murderer Joseph Stalin to the Luddite watermelons of the Green movement one thing stands out from this list. All the top places were occupied by free market liberal democracies. The UAE came in at 32 as the first non-liberal democracy. All kinds of loony left and religious nutcases have been telling us that the end is nigh and we must ditch our economic and political system but the facts don't lie. Thanks to democracy and the free market we are amongst the most advanced nation in spite of all our difficulties. Communists, Islamofacists and Gold Standard Libertarians take note.
 


Ingersoll

Active member
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
233
How are we advanced again?
 

Partizan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
7,777
Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)

Yes indeed folks at this time when the nabobs of negativity from Tehran to Beijing to Caracas and spanning the gamut of micro groups from lovers of the mass murderer Joseph Stalin to the Luddite watermelons of the Green movement one thing stands out from this list. All the top places were occupied by free market liberal democracies. The UAE came in at 32 as the first non-liberal democracy. All kinds of loony left and religious nutcases have been telling us that the end is nigh and we must ditch our economic and political system but the facts don't lie. Thanks to democracy and the free market we are amongst the most advanced nation in spite of all our difficulties. Communists, Islamofacists and Gold Standard Libertarians take note.
Here we go again :rolleyes:
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,160
How are we advanced again?
We are ranked fifth as has been pointed out in another thread 9no thanks to our government mind you). But the thing is the number of western countries taking up all the top places.
 

Partizan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
7,777
We are ranked fifth as has been pointed out in another thread 9no thanks to our government mind you). But the thing is the number of western countries taking up all the top places.
I am convinced that you are insane.

Crawl back under that rock along with the rest of the now defunct PDs.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
16,885
WTF?

1. There is no free market.

2. The closest country to proper democracy and a proper market economy is Switzerland and it comes 13th.

3. The Human Development Index is the worst indicator for measuring the welfare of nations in the world.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,160
I am convinced that you are insane.

Crawl back under that rock along with the rest of the now defunct PDs.
I realise it is difficult for you to accept that your beliefs are wrong but sit down and think about it. Can you point out any socialist workers paradises on that list in the Very High section?
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,160
WTF?

1. There is no free market.

2. The closest country to proper democracy and a proper market economy is Switzerland and it comes 13th.

3. The Human Development Index is the worst indicator for measuring the welfare of nations in the world.
Leaving aside points 1. and 2. as they are rubbish can you tell me why this index is "the worst indicator"? What do you suggest?
 

Tombo

1
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
5,302
The only metric that can properly guage "development" or "attractiveness" of any country is the net immigration figures.

People want to leave:
Poorer countries
non-democratic countries
non western liberal economic countries

People want to go to:
Liberal western market based countries.


Ireland, by that metric scores badly now - large net immigration. I think that fact put us moe accurately down the list.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,160
The only metric that can properly guage "development" or "attractiveness" of any country is the net immigration figures.

People want to leave:
Poorer countries
non-democratic countries
non western liberal economic countries

People want to go to:
Liberal western market based countries.


Ireland, by that metric scores badly now - large net immigration. I think that fact put us moe accurately down the list.

There is no evidence to back up what you say. There is no way of gauging where people want to go. I'd say more people want to go to the UK than countries higher up because they speak English.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
16,885
Leaving aside points 1. and 2. as they are rubbish can you tell me why this index is "the worst indicator"? What do you suggest?
1. All economies are planned by the state and a central bank.

2. Switzerland is the only country in the world to have direct democracy. They don't even have a president or a prime minister, the people run the cantons and it has a fine mixed economy with 3.5% unemployment at present and a proper independent currency 20% of it backed by Gold. What is that like in comparison to our feudal dictatorship?

3.
Criticisms
The Human Development Index has been criticised on a number of grounds, including failure to include any ecological considerations, focusing exclusively on national performance and ranking, and not paying much attention to development from a global perspective. Two authors claimed that the human development reports "have lost touch with their original vision and the index fails to capture the essence of the world it seeks to portray".[10] The index has also been criticized as "redundant" and a "reinvention of the wheel", measuring aspects of development that have already been exhaustively studied.[11][12] The index has further been criticised for having an inappropriate treatment of income, lacking year-to-year comparability, and assessing development differently in different groups of countries.[13]

Economist Bryan Caplan has criticised the way HDI scores are produced; each of the three components are bounded between zero and one. As a result of that, rich countries effectively cannot improve their ranking in certain categories, even though there is a lot of scope for economic growth and longevity left. "This effectively means that a country of immortals with infinite per-capita GDP would get a score of .666 (lower than South Africa and Tajikistan) if its population were illiterate and never went to school."[14] He argues, "Scandinavia comes out on top according to the HDI because the HDI is basically a measure of how Scandinavian your country is."[14]

The following are common criticisms directed at the HDI: that it is a redundant measure that adds little to the value of the individual measures composing it; that it is a means to provide legitimacy to arbitrary weightings of a few aspects of social development; that it is a number producing a relative ranking which is useless for inter-temporal comparisons, and difficult to compare a country's progress or regression since the HDI for a country in a given year depends on the levels of, say, life expectancy or GDP per capita of other countries in that year.[15][16][17][18] However, each year, UN member states are listed and ranked according to the computed HDI. If high, the rank in the list can be easily used as a means of national aggrandizement; alternatively, if low, it can be used to highlight national insufficiencies. Using the HDI as an absolute index of social welfare, some authors have used panel HDI data to measure the impact of economic policies on quality of life.[19]

Ratan Lal Basu criticises the HDI concept from a completely different angle. According to him the Amartya Sen-Mahbub ul Haq concept of HDI considers that provision of material amenities alone would bring about Human Development, but Basu opines that Human Development in the true sense should embrace both material and moral development. According to him human development based on HDI alone, is similar to dairy farm economics to improve dairy farm output. To quote: ‘So human development effort should not end up in amelioration of material deprivations alone: it must undertake to bring about spiritual and moral development to assist the biped to become truly human.’[20] For example, a high suicide rate would bring the index down.

A few authors have proposed alternative indices to address some of the index's shortcomings.[21] However, of those proposed alternatives to the HDI, few have produced alternatives covering so many countries, and that no development index (other than, perhaps, Gross Domestic Product per capita) has been used so extensively – or effectively, in discussions and developmental planning as the HDI.

However, there has been one lament about the HDI that has resulted in an alternative index: David Hastings, of the United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific published a report geographically extending the HDI to 230+ economies, where the UNDP HDI for 2009 enumerates 182 economies.[22]
The welfare of people is largely ignore in this indicator and thats what economics should be about. Allocating scarce resources efficiently and effectively to the benefit of all.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,160
1. All economies are planned by the state and a central bank.
No they aren't. They may create a framework and have an input but by and large most western economies are free markets.

2. Switzerland is the only country in the world to have direct democracy. They don't even have a president or a prime minister, the people run the cantons and it has a fine mixed economy with 3.5% unemployment at present and a proper independent currency 20% of it backed by Gold. What is that like in comparison to our feudal dictatorship?
It also has one of those evil central bank thingies. Funny that. There is direct democracy in the US and I am not sure it is a good thing. The idea that parliamentary democracy is not democracy is the preserve of a lunatic fringe.


The welfare of people is largely ignore in this indicator and thats what economics should be about. Allocating scarce resources efficiently and effectively to the benefit of all.
Allocating resources is what governments can play a part in and the fact that governments intervene (including the Swiss) is what advances western nations up the ranks in this index. I aware there are critics of it but there will always be critics depending on the viewpoints of said critics and what they see as important. Anyway the overwhelming prevalence of liberal free market democracies in the top of the index would not chnage no matter what index you use.
 

Ulysses

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2004
Messages
160
Freedom is the by-product of economic surplus.

- Aneurin Bevan
 

Éireann go Brách

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
1,546
Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)

Yes indeed folks at this time when the nabobs of negativity from Tehran to Beijing to Caracas and spanning the gamut of micro groups from lovers of the mass murderer Joseph Stalin to the Luddite watermelons of the Green movement one thing stands out from this list. All the top places were occupied by free market liberal democracies. The UAE came in at 32 as the first non-liberal democracy. All kinds of loony left and religious nutcases have been telling us that the end is nigh and we must ditch our economic and political system but the facts don't lie. Thanks to democracy and the free market we are amongst the most advanced nation in spite of all our difficulties. Communists, Islamofacists and Gold Standard Libertarians take note.

Its also a vindiction of the importanace of Race and culture.
All 42 of the countries in the very high development section are
European and North-east Asian majority countries
the exceptions being some oil-rich countries with small populations in the
middle east and the mixed state of singaphore and also barabos
The European countries of the former soviet union are all in the high
development group with the exception of molodova
a small country hit very hard by collaspe of FSU.

Conversly all the countries in the very low index are sub-sahara African
with the exception of Burma nepal Afganistan and Papau new guniea.

Its shows the dangers of liberl views on Immigration and multi-culturism.
 

sondagefaux

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
15,515
The only metric that can properly guage "development" or "attractiveness" of any country is the net immigration figures.

People want to leave:
Poorer countries
non-democratic countries
non western liberal economic countries

People want to go to:
Liberal western market based countries.


Ireland, by that metric scores badly now - large net immigration. I think that fact put us moe accurately down the list.
I presume you meant large net emigration. Fact is, even taking into account emigration in the past two years or so, Ireland has attracted hundreds of thousands of people who want to live here.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
16,885
No they aren't. They may create a framework and have an input but by and large most western economies are free markets.



It also has one of those evil central bank thingies. Funny that. There is direct democracy in the US and I am not sure it is a good thing. The idea that parliamentary democracy is not democracy is the preserve of a lunatic fringe.




Allocating resources is what governments can play a part in and the fact that governments intervene (including the Swiss) is what advances western nations up the ranks in this index. I aware there are critics of it but there will always be critics depending on the viewpoints of said critics and what they see as important. Anyway the overwhelming prevalence of liberal free market democracies in the top of the index would not chnage no matter what index you use.
Ireland's GNP is going to be €120 Billion this year. Its Gross Government Expenditure will be around €60 to €65 Billion for the year. How free is that?

How can some bureaucrat in government know how to mimic a market? Look at all the sudden useless expenditure in roadworks recently to justify bloated budgets. How is that a free market?

This survey is predominantly educational oriented and a lot of kids are being taught in rat and cockroach infested prefabs while we shovel up to €100 Billion into insolvent market failed institutes. Is that a free market?

If we had a free market than 18 months on after September 2008 we would have a new pristine free model banking system with possibly a new currency that works in the interest of our people.

Instead we have Neofeudalism. How well would the suppliers (solicitors and accountants) of NAMA do in free market conditions?

Anyhow, Education and healthcare is outside of a free market as the production function fails. Labour is a necessary output as well as an input and it has long term tendencies. There can be no trade off with capital (machines, technology) to improve productivity as productivity is a constant. The economics of care is completely different, and requires a limited role of state (preferably direct democracy) and / or non profit organisations.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
16,885
This list is a pile of steaming horse sugar.

Ireland more developed than switzerland?

Greece more developed than the UK?

Belarus more developed than Russia?

US more developed than France?

Israel more developed than Finland or Denmark???
I know what next?

The highest county in Ireland for carefree spending is Cavan?
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,160


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top