Unionism, Nationalism, the North, the South, the Past and the Future

Roll_On

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As title suggests this is to discuss how we got here in NI and where to go now.

In 1921 the unionist community threatened violence if Home Rule were to see the light of day. The British government had an interest in holding on to the NE of Ireland as it was quite wealthy at the time so they endorsed this move and sought to create a northern state, which would remain 'British'.

The reasons why unionists were so opposed to home rule were many. In a nutshell Irish nationalism had sort of wrapped it's self up in Catholicism ever since the emancipation days when Presbyterians got the vote and stopped giving a toss about emancipation for Catholics. Nationalism will tend to do that with religion when you have a relatively homogeneous people. With this in mind, Home Rule is Rome Rule was born, NI protestants feared oppression and discrimination by a majority Catholic state. Another reason for their opposition may have been a cultural link to Britain, although even at that time the PUL culture of NI was an antiquated version of 'Britishness'. So the UK set about carving out the maximum land area of Ireland they felt that they could control long term, unfortunately for them they were far too ambitious and took in a very large Catholic(and therefore Irish nationalist) population.

The protestant fears of 'Rome Rule' were largely well founded. The south quickly descended into Rome Rule. My personal view is that if NI protestants had got on board with home rule the hyper Catholic Ireland would never have been born. De Velara would never have been able to hand the Catholic Church so much power if 1/3rd of the population were protestant and a further % of the Dublin population would've been liberals. We would've had a more secular state from the beginning a much more peaceful 20th century.

Anyway that didn't happen. The south stagnated under regressive policies, protectionism, the church, Fianna Fail, policies of ruralisation and opposition to industrialization because it was 'too English' made the south a bleak place up until the 1970s at least. During the mid 20th century NI was definitely more prosperous and a lot more liberal. At that time protestants were seen as more liberal than catholics. NI had a better business and regulatory environment (provided you were protestant of course) than the protectionist south, they embraced industy and urbanization. Belfast was actually bigger than Dublin at the time of partition and alot wealthier too. You could buy condoms up there, there was a greater variety and quality of consumer products generally, the infrastructure was much better developed. Many in the south envied the more modern north. Despite this clearly better off position, NI was run by a protestant parliament for a protestant people, a complete cold house for Catholics. Even so called moderates like Terrance O'Neil, who issued horrific sectarian one liners that would cost him his job today, were forced out of power for not being anti-Catholic enough. Protestants probably feared the rapid growth of their internal catholic community and sought to frighten them down to the south with various discriminatory policies.

The troubles kicked off and Catholics became more associated with the left wing, civil rights movements and what have you. Protestants became mentally entrenched in 16th century battle fields. By the 1990s The south was becoming uber modern and cosmopolitan. Since then the near opposite is the case, Dublin has outgrown Belfast multiple times over. The ROI economy runs rings around NI in every single sector, the business environment is vastly superior. Not only that but the ROI is infinitely more liberal, sex and sexuality are openly discussed. The catholic state has been completely dismantled bar 1 or 2 symbolic things like the 6.1 news.

The primary reason for Unionist opposition to home rule, the Catholic state, is gone. The cultural ties with Britain, which were tenuous in the 1920s are completely gone. Yet unionism remains in ever more entrenched positions, unionism has even back tracked from it's more pragmatic GFA self we saw 20 years ago and become more entrenched in the 16th century.

liberal protestants and a liberal(if you were protestant) NI has become backwards and religious
Conservative catholics and a conservative ROI has become liberal, modern and secular. The NI state that was carved out to ensure protestant domination with only a 30% catholic population has almost come full circle. In the 2011 census only 30% of toddlers were from a protestant background. What are posters thoughts on these full circle changes, how we got here and where we're going from now? one thing is for sure it's a fascinating read in the history books. What's next in the NI saga? many predict that NI will be dismantled by the mid 21st century as unionism collapses. Some predict a resurgence/rebirth in unionism. Discuss.
 


between the bridges

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Sep 21, 2011
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As title suggests this is to discuss how we got here in NI and where to go now.

In 1921 the unionist community threatened violence if Home Rule were to see the light of day. The British government had an interest in holding on to the NE of Ireland as it was quite wealthy at the time so they endorsed this move and sought to create a northern state, which would remain 'British'.

The reasons why unionists were so opposed to home rule were many. In a nutshell Irish nationalism had sort of wrapped it's self up in Catholicism ever since the emancipation days when Presbyterians got the vote and stopped giving a toss about emancipation for Catholics. Nationalism will tend to do that with religion when you have a relatively homogeneous people. With this in mind, Home Rule is Rome Rule was born, NI protestants feared oppression and discrimination by a majority Catholic state. Another reason for their opposition may have been a cultural link to Britain, although even at that time the PUL culture of NI was an antiquated version of 'Britishness'. So the UK set about carving out the maximum land area of Ireland they felt that they could control long term, unfortunately for them they were far too ambitious and took in a very large Catholic(and therefore Irish nationalist) population.

The protestant fears of 'Rome Rule' were largely well founded. The south quickly descended into Rome Rule. My personal view is that if NI protestants had got on board with home rule the hyper Catholic Ireland would never have been born. De Velara would never have been able to hand the Catholic Church so much power if 1/3rd of the population were protestant and a further % of the Dublin population would've been liberals. We would've had a more secular state from the beginning a much more peaceful 20th century.

Anyway that didn't happen. The south stagnated under regressive policies, protectionism, the church, Fianna Fail, policies of ruralisation and opposition to industrialization because it was 'too English' made the south a bleak place up until the 1970s at least. During the mid 20th century NI was definitely more prosperous and a lot more liberal. At that time protestants were seen as more liberal than catholics. NI had a better business and regulatory environment (provided you were protestant of course) than the protectionist south, they embraced industy and urbanization. Belfast was actually bigger than Dublin at the time of partition and alot wealthier too. You could buy condoms up there, there was a greater variety and quality of consumer products generally, the infrastructure was much better developed. Many in the south envied the more modern north. Despite this clearly better off position, NI was run by a protestant parliament for a protestant people, a complete cold house for Catholics. Even so called moderates like Terrance O'Neil, who issued horrific sectarian one liners that would cost him his job today, were forced out of power for not being anti-Catholic enough. Protestants probably feared the rapid growth of their internal catholic community and sought to frighten them down to the south with various discriminatory policies.

The troubles kicked off and Catholics became more associated with the left wing, civil rights movements and what have you. Protestants became mentally entrenched in 16th century battle fields. By the 1990s The south was becoming uber modern and cosmopolitan. Since then the near opposite is the case, Dublin has outgrown Belfast multiple times over. The ROI economy runs rings around NI in every single sector, the business environment is vastly superior. Not only that but the ROI is infinitely more liberal, sex and sexuality are openly discussed. The catholic state has been completely dismantled bar 1 or 2 symbolic things like the 6.1 news.

The primary reason for Unionist opposition to home rule, the Catholic state, is gone. The cultural ties with Britain, which were tenuous in the 1920s are completely gone. Yet unionism remains in ever more entrenched positions, unionism has even back tracked from it's more pragmatic GFA self we saw 20 years ago and become more entrenched in the 16th century.

liberal protestants and a liberal(if you were protestant) NI has become backwards and religious
Conservative catholics and a conservative ROI has become liberal, modern and secular. The NI state that was carved out to ensure protestant domination with only a 30% catholic population has almost come full circle. In the 2011 census only 30% of toddlers were from a protestant background. What are posters thoughts on these full circle changes, how we got here and where we're going from now? one thing is for sure it's a fascinating read in the history books. What's next in the NI saga? many predict that NI will be dismantled by the mid 21st century as unionism collapses. Some predict a resurgence/rebirth in unionism. Discuss.
Translation: Themuns....
 

GDPR

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A lot of Republicans say that getting rid of the border will magically solve a lot of the dysfunctions around tribalism and sectarianism in Ulster- I don't believe this though because if you look at Donegal people there are often more hate filled against "themuns" than they are in Belfast. At the moment I believe that a return to large scale political violence is inevitable unless there is significant cultural change. A major problem is that a lot of Ulster Prods have extremely poor time preferences- five years into the future just isn't real to them no mind ten or twenty years.
 

Niall996

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Joined
Dec 5, 2011
Messages
11,823
As title suggests this is to discuss how we got here in NI and where to go now.

In 1921 the unionist community threatened violence if Home Rule were to see the light of day. The British government had an interest in holding on to the NE of Ireland as it was quite wealthy at the time so they endorsed this move and sought to create a northern state, which would remain 'British'.

The reasons why unionists were so opposed to home rule were many. In a nutshell Irish nationalism had sort of wrapped it's self up in Catholicism ever since the emancipation days when Presbyterians got the vote and stopped giving a toss about emancipation for Catholics. Nationalism will tend to do that with religion when you have a relatively homogeneous people. With this in mind, Home Rule is Rome Rule was born, NI protestants feared oppression and discrimination by a majority Catholic state. Another reason for their opposition may have been a cultural link to Britain, although even at that time the PUL culture of NI was an antiquated version of 'Britishness'. So the UK set about carving out the maximum land area of Ireland they felt that they could control long term, unfortunately for them they were far too ambitious and took in a very large Catholic(and therefore Irish nationalist) population.

The protestant fears of 'Rome Rule' were largely well founded. The south quickly descended into Rome Rule. My personal view is that if NI protestants had got on board with home rule the hyper Catholic Ireland would never have been born. De Velara would never have been able to hand the Catholic Church so much power if 1/3rd of the population were protestant and a further % of the Dublin population would've been liberals. We would've had a more secular state from the beginning a much more peaceful 20th century.

Anyway that didn't happen. The south stagnated under regressive policies, protectionism, the church, Fianna Fail, policies of ruralisation and opposition to industrialization because it was 'too English' made the south a bleak place up until the 1970s at least. During the mid 20th century NI was definitely more prosperous and a lot more liberal. At that time protestants were seen as more liberal than catholics. NI had a better business and regulatory environment (provided you were protestant of course) than the protectionist south, they embraced industy and urbanization. Belfast was actually bigger than Dublin at the time of partition and alot wealthier too. You could buy condoms up there, there was a greater variety and quality of consumer products generally, the infrastructure was much better developed. Many in the south envied the more modern north. Despite this clearly better off position, NI was run by a protestant parliament for a protestant people, a complete cold house for Catholics. Even so called moderates like Terrance O'Neil, who issued horrific sectarian one liners that would cost him his job today, were forced out of power for not being anti-Catholic enough. Protestants probably feared the rapid growth of their internal catholic community and sought to frighten them down to the south with various discriminatory policies.

The troubles kicked off and Catholics became more associated with the left wing, civil rights movements and what have you. Protestants became mentally entrenched in 16th century battle fields. By the 1990s The south was becoming uber modern and cosmopolitan. Since then the near opposite is the case, Dublin has outgrown Belfast multiple times over. The ROI economy runs rings around NI in every single sector, the business environment is vastly superior. Not only that but the ROI is infinitely more liberal, sex and sexuality are openly discussed. The catholic state has been completely dismantled bar 1 or 2 symbolic things like the 6.1 news.

The primary reason for Unionist opposition to home rule, the Catholic state, is gone. The cultural ties with Britain, which were tenuous in the 1920s are completely gone. Yet unionism remains in ever more entrenched positions, unionism has even back tracked from it's more pragmatic GFA self we saw 20 years ago and become more entrenched in the 16th century.

liberal protestants and a liberal(if you were protestant) NI has become backwards and religious
Conservative catholics and a conservative ROI has become liberal, modern and secular. The NI state that was carved out to ensure protestant domination with only a 30% catholic population has almost come full circle. In the 2011 census only 30% of toddlers were from a protestant background. What are posters thoughts on these full circle changes, how we got here and where we're going from now? one thing is for sure it's a fascinating read in the history books. What's next in the NI saga? many predict that NI will be dismantled by the mid 21st century as unionism collapses. Some predict a resurgence/rebirth in unionism. Discuss.
The Irish inherited a state that was in utter ruins. It had lost half it's population in the preceding generation. Not to mention the Anglo Irish Trade war which blocked the entire BE at the time to Irish exports. You think the 2008 crash was bad! Of course it took years to find it's feet. And of course mistakes were made. And the pendulum swung too much at times. The influence of the church is also very exaggerated. The fact is religious prople all over the world are by their nature very religious. The population believed in things we scorn at today or atheists always scorned at. Just as they did in the US (and still do), France, Spain Italy, the UK etc. The ROI really only got going in the 60's after a natural and relatively short period of rebuilding, rebirth, renewal, rediscovery. In fact when you look at what happened in the rest of Europe in the 20th century Ireland had quite a tranquil and progresssive evolution.
 

PO'Neill

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It's inevitably heading to two green states in Ireland, a nationalist majority will be in the six counties within a decade, it's absurdity keeping partition though FG/FF/LP will do everything possible to keep the corrupt, rotten, cronyist gombeen structure in place. But like former leader of the UUP Mike Nesbitt states it's game over, time for unionists to know their place just like they did in 1922 in Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan etc. Simples :)

Unionist majority will not be around for very much longer - Mike Nesbitt

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unionist-majority-will-not-be-around-for-very-much-longer-mike-nesbitt-clarifies-comments-reported-in-australia-36795431.html
 

Craigmore..

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It's inevitably heading to two green states in Ireland, a nationalist majority will be in the six counties within a decade, it's absurdity keeping partition though FG/FF/LP will do everything possible to keep the corrupt, rotten, cronyist gombeen structure in place. But like former leader of the UUP Mike Nesbitt states it's game over, time for unionists to know their place just like they did in 1922 in Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan etc. Simples :)

Unionist majority will not be around for very much longer - Mike Nesbitt

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unionist-majority-will-not-be-around-for-very-much-longer-mike-nesbitt-clarifies-comments-reported-in-australia-36795431.html
I wouldn't count on that boy. Anything unagreed will lead to chaos. Bring it on I say.
 

AhNowStop

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I wouldn't count on that boy. Anything unagreed will lead to chaos. Bring it on I say.

LMFAO





ah, look at the wee dote :roll: ffs


edit -- btw, baby craig, have you heard of the GFA .. its already agreed wee son :cool:
 

Niall996

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It's inevitably heading to two green states in Ireland, a nationalist majority will be in the six counties within a decade, it's absurdity keeping partition though FG/FF/LP will do everything possible to keep the corrupt, rotten, cronyist gombeen structure in place. But like former leader of the UUP Mike Nesbitt states it's game over, time for unionists to know their place just like they did in 1922 in Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan etc. Simples :)

Unionist majority will not be around for very much longer - Mike Nesbitt

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unionist-majority-will-not-be-around-for-very-much-longer-mike-nesbitt-clarifies-comments-reported-in-australia-36795431.html
Honestly, I think about thirty years for unionists to live in a green state would do a lot of good. The 12.6B would continue to flow from the British taxpayer which one could consider reparations of sorts. Cross border development within the EU framework would be transformed. Ultimately unity would be seamless and on the basis of a new future focussed vision for the island as a whole while recognising it's unique history. We'll all celebrate St Pats Day, the !2th and probably a third event. At least the 12th give us a day out in Summer! For me step one is the ongoing transition of democratic power from unionism to SFIRA. How long that subsequently lasts for is not that big a deal for me. What it means in the South is that SF will be without a doubt the singular centre left alternative to the FF/FG centre right and a 32 county Ireland will settle into that traditional left/right balance. It's all coming together nicely.
 

GDPR

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LMFAO


ah, look at the wee dote :roll: ffs


edit -- btw, baby craig, have you heard of the GFA .. its already agreed wee son :cool:
I think Craigmore is deadly serious, in the event of a border poll if not him people like will be out on the street rioting and also carrying out terrorist murders of random people from the CNR community. A successful border poll would completely shatter the self image of people like him, DOG, BtB and Soggy. More than most things people are prepared to do really awful things in order to preserve the self image that they have of themselves.
 

PO'Neill

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I wouldn't count on that boy. Anything unagreed will lead to chaos. Bring it on I say.
I couldn't agree more, we'll all have a laugh at the unionist 'backlash' when your abandoned by the Brits just like they did in Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan and Dublin where there leader Carson was from in 1922. Get packing your bags and don't let the door hit you on the ar$e on the way out orangies !!!

[video=youtube;SsBNZZeeDps]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsBNZZeeDps[/video]
 

PO'Neill

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LMFAO





ah, look at the wee dote :roll: ffs


edit -- btw, baby craig, have you heard of the GFA .. its already agreed wee son :cool:
'Ulster' still Says NOOOOO :lol:

[video=youtube;8zSWlAHD29M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zSWlAHD29M[/video]
 

Roll_On

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Messages
17,544
It's inevitably heading to two green states in Ireland, a nationalist majority will be in the six counties within a decade, it's absurdity keeping partition though FG/FF/LP will do everything possible to keep the corrupt, rotten, cronyist gombeen structure in place. But like former leader of the UUP Mike Nesbitt states it's game over, time for unionists to know their place just like they did in 1922 in Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan etc. Simples :)

Unionist majority will not be around for very much longer - Mike Nesbitt

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unionist-majority-will-not-be-around-for-very-much-longer-mike-nesbitt-clarifies-comments-reported-in-australia-36795431.html
I don't know how you think the ROI subsuming NI will make the ROI less 'corrupt', the UN finds Ireland to be one of the world's least corrupt countries as is btw.
 

AhNowStop

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As title suggests this is to discuss how we got here in NI and where to go now.

In 1921 the unionist community threatened violence if Home Rule were to see the light of day. The British government had an interest in holding on to the NE of Ireland as it was quite wealthy at the time so they endorsed this move and sought to create a northern state, which would remain 'British'.

The reasons why unionists were so opposed to home rule were many. In a nutshell Irish nationalism had sort of wrapped it's self up in Catholicism ever since the emancipation days when Presbyterians got the vote and stopped giving a toss about emancipation for Catholics. Nationalism will tend to do that with religion when you have a relatively homogeneous people. With this in mind, Home Rule is Rome Rule was born, NI protestants feared oppression and discrimination by a majority Catholic state. Another reason for their opposition may have been a cultural link to Britain, although even at that time the PUL culture of NI was an antiquated version of 'Britishness'. So the UK set about carving out the maximum land area of Ireland they felt that they could control long term, unfortunately for them they were far too ambitious and took in a very large Catholic(and therefore Irish nationalist) population.

The protestant fears of 'Rome Rule' were largely well founded. The south quickly descended into Rome Rule. My personal view is that if NI protestants had got on board with home rule the hyper Catholic Ireland would never have been born. De Velara would never have been able to hand the Catholic Church so much power if 1/3rd of the population were protestant and a further % of the Dublin population would've been liberals. We would've had a more secular state from the beginning a much more peaceful 20th century.

Anyway that didn't happen. The south stagnated under regressive policies, protectionism, the church, Fianna Fail, policies of ruralisation and opposition to industrialization because it was 'too English' made the south a bleak place up until the 1970s at least. During the mid 20th century NI was definitely more prosperous and a lot more liberal. At that time protestants were seen as more liberal than catholics. NI had a better business and regulatory environment (provided you were protestant of course) than the protectionist south, they embraced industy and urbanization. Belfast was actually bigger than Dublin at the time of partition and alot wealthier too. You could buy condoms up there, there was a greater variety and quality of consumer products generally, the infrastructure was much better developed. Many in the south envied the more modern north. Despite this clearly better off position, NI was run by a protestant parliament for a protestant people, a complete cold house for Catholics. Even so called moderates like Terrance O'Neil, who issued horrific sectarian one liners that would cost him his job today, were forced out of power for not being anti-Catholic enough. Protestants probably feared the rapid growth of their internal catholic community and sought to frighten them down to the south with various discriminatory policies.

The troubles kicked off and Catholics became more associated with the left wing, civil rights movements and what have you. Protestants became mentally entrenched in 16th century battle fields. By the 1990s The south was becoming uber modern and cosmopolitan. Since then the near opposite is the case, Dublin has outgrown Belfast multiple times over. The ROI economy runs rings around NI in every single sector, the business environment is vastly superior. Not only that but the ROI is infinitely more liberal, sex and sexuality are openly discussed. The catholic state has been completely dismantled bar 1 or 2 symbolic things like the 6.1 news.

The primary reason for Unionist opposition to home rule, the Catholic state, is gone. The cultural ties with Britain, which were tenuous in the 1920s are completely gone. Yet unionism remains in ever more entrenched positions, unionism has even back tracked from it's more pragmatic GFA self we saw 20 years ago and become more entrenched in the 16th century.

liberal protestants and a liberal(if you were protestant) NI has become backwards and religious
Conservative catholics and a conservative ROI has become liberal, modern and secular. The NI state that was carved out to ensure protestant domination with only a 30% catholic population has almost come full circle. In the 2011 census only 30% of toddlers were from a protestant background. What are posters thoughts on these full circle changes, how we got here and where we're going from now? one thing is for sure it's a fascinating read in the history books. What's next in the NI saga? many predict that NI will be dismantled by the mid 21st century as unionism collapses. Some predict a resurgence/rebirth in unionism. Discuss.
good post..

as Mark Carruthers said last night on the view... Paisley Snr said in 1971 that he had 2 main points of opposition to a United Ireland .. Articles 1 & 2 and the Catholic State ... they are both gone now .. of course this was lost on the DUP representative.

Also, I think Unionism really should wake up & smell the coffee as regards the British not wanting to keep NI .. they need to wake up to the fact that the lads accross the water dont give a fook about them, us or anyone else but themseles... and thats ok btw.

Brexit and a better Ireland economically must also be a factor in protestants/former unionists deciding that an all ireland scenario is the way to go .. Wouldn't it be ironic if the Brexit they clamored for ended up hastening their undoing !!


Saying all that, you will always get the crackpots like some of the loons on here who would rather live in a bucket of sh1te in NI than in paradise in Ireland ... but hey, ye cant please everybody :roll:



As to "how we got here" ... We wouldn't be here if the old Stormont had been left in situ ... the old stormont unionist gerrymandering, employment, jobs & housing discrimination would have ensured that enough Catholics would always have had to emigrate to ensure that they kept their manufactured majority....

Everything changed when the old stormont went and with the introduction of equality laws .. things like the McBride principles were a major factor in keeping people at home too....

Stormont was shut down & the reins were taken off the Unionists ...... Thats why we are where we are today
 

between the bridges

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Oh sweet farting jaysus on a tricycle! just when ye think ye've seen and heard it all it turns out big Ian twas a united Irelanderd all along, moi tis shacked...
 

AhNowStop

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I think Craigmore is deadly serious, in the event of a border poll if not him people like will be out on the street rioting and also carrying out terrorist murders of random people from the CNR community. A successful border poll would completely shatter the self image of people like him, DOG, BtB and Soggy. More than most things people are prepared to do really awful things in order to preserve the self image that they have of themselves.
to what end ... ? ... Ive asked these crackpots this but they wont/cant answer ....... What would be their end game ?

btw, tis a whole lot harder to act the big fella when you dont have parts of the the RUC the UDR & the various sections of the BA & MI5 backing you up and doing the donkey work for you
 

Roll_On

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to what end ... ? ... Ive asked these crackpots this but they wont/cant answer ....... What would be their end game ?

btw, tis a whole lot harder to act the big fella when you dont have parts of the the RUC the UDR & the various sections of the BA & MI5 backing you up and doing the donkey work for you
I think REF's point is that there wouldn't be a goal, it would just be senseless rioting/violence. It is a possible outcome but it's one I would support very tough measures against. The loyalist rioters of NI are used to getting sprinkled with warm water by a sympathetic psni when their behavior turns too extreme to ignore. That is the standard they are used to. I would advocate a more totalitarian reaction to rioting, instigators should be shot and arrested, given 30 year sentences in a distant prison, Portlaoise perhaps, and their family homes demolished.
 

between the bridges

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I think REF's point is that there wouldn't be a goal, it would just be senseless rioting/violence. It is a possible outcome but it's one I would support very tough measures against. The loyalist rioters of NI are used to getting sprinkled with warm water by a sympathetic psni when their behavior turns too extreme to ignore. That is the standard they are used to. I would advocate a more totalitarian reaction to rioting, instigators should be shot and arrested, given 30 year sentences in a distant prison, Portlaoise perhaps, and their family homes demolished.
Here horse now that big Ian has been exposed as a UI'r thon name places tis sorted...
 

GDPR

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to what end ... ? ... Ive asked these crackpots this but they wont/cant answer ....... What would be their end game ?

btw, tis a whole lot harder to act the big fella when you dont have parts of the the RUC the UDR & the various sections of the BA & MI5 backing you up and doing the donkey work for you
To intimidate people from voting to leave the UK and to intimidate the ROI and it's people from wanting to take on the six counties that currently make up Northern Ireland. That and old fashioned lack of emotional control.
 


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