Unions' squabbling over demarcation despite hospital trolley crisis

Patslatt1

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See Demarcation dispute - Wikipedia
Jealously controlled demarcation over who did what in UK factories in the 1970s was an important factor that contributed to the collapse of UK manufacturing. Surprisingly, inefficient demarcation still survives in Irish hospitals according to a hospital consultant interviewed on Newstalk Radio by Ciara, a doctor, on her talk show. Tasks that could be done cheaply and effectively by less qualified workers are prevented.An egregious example was the refusal of the nurses' union to allow nurses helpers to work in mental hospitals until a few years ago, contrary to good international practice.
That such utterly selfish trade union practices are allowed in a health care crisis proves the public sector trade unions have too much influence over politicians;governments' powers to get things done are weakened by constant coalitions thanks to extreme proportional representation voting.
It is unlikely that this situation will change or that the power of vested interests will be curbed until there is constitutional change to voting. A simple solution would be to limit the vote to two names which would still provide a variety of political parties compared to one choice in first-past-the-post systems.
 


making waves

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See Demarcation dispute - Wikipedia
Jealously controlled demarcation over who did what in UK factories in the 1970s was an important factor that contributed to the collapse of UK manufacturing. Surprisingly, inefficient demarcation still survives in Irish hospitals according to a hospital consultant interviewed on Newstalk Radio by Ciara, a doctor, on her talk show. Tasks that could be done cheaply and effectively by less qualified workers are prevented.An egregious example was the refusal of the nurses' union to allow nurses helpers to work in mental hospitals until a few years ago, contrary to good international practice.
That such utterly selfish trade union practices are allowed in a health care crisis proves the public sector trade unions have too much influence over politicians;governments' powers to get things done are weakened by constant coalitions thanks to extreme proportional representation voting.
It is unlikely that this situation will change or that the power of vested interests will be curbed until there is constitutional change to voting. A simple solution would be to limit the vote to two names which would still provide a variety of political parties compared to one choice in first-past-the-post systems.
Patslatt's daily bash the public sector thread - with a dose of anti-democratic manoeuvering thrown in for good measure.
 

Uganda

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Patslatt's daily bash the public sector thread - with a dose of anti-democratic manoeuvering thrown in for good measure.
and in relation to the facts he outlines - do correct them if they’re wrong.
 

Uganda

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There are no facts - just the rambling of a bitter public sector basher.
silly me. The hse is the most perfectly run organisation in the whole world.

where er did I get the view it’s a basket case?
 

making waves

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silly me. The hse is the most perfectly run organisation in the whole world.

where er did I get the view it’s a basket case?
No - its a basket case alright - that's what you get when you let FF and FG run it using bureaucrats who view it as a 'business'.
 

Patslatt1

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Patslatt's daily bash the public sector thread - with a dose of anti-democratic manoeuvering thrown in for good measure.
The ripoffs described deserve bashing unless you think absurd demarcations are ok.
The "antidemocratic" choice of two candidate votes is a lot more democratic nationally than the single vote in first past the post in the UK, the USA and Canada, although the latter two have extra democracy through state and provincial governments.
In a large group of people, there would be a lot of variation in the choices of two candidates, such as FF&FG, FF&L, FF&SF etc that would provide a reasonble choice of parties but not the extreme splintering trend of the past twenty years.
France under President DeGaulle abandoned proportional representation voting that resulted in too many squabbling political parties. That said, it was a PR elected government that led France to victory in the face of horrific casualties of WW1.
 

Patslatt1

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There are no facts - just the rambling of a bitter public sector basher.
Making waves of bilge,as usual. How's your favourite government in Venezuela doing? Contributing to famine and refugee relief? Still blaming the CIA?
 

Patslatt1

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No - its a basket case alright - that's what you get when you let FF and FG run it using bureaucrats who view it as a 'business'.
If it was remotely like a business, the money ( resources in bureaucratspeak) would follow the patient as advocated by a senator who is an oncologist.
 

Dame_Enda

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I heard stories years ago about lightbulbs in hospitals going un-replaced because of demarcation disputes. Im not sure if that still goes on, Have the electricians been outsourced yet?
 

McTell

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No
Unions have a job to do, and there's no such thing as "enough", or else another union will pop up and take members.

So long as the state / HSE is an easy "captive" squeeze, the rest of us will bust a gut to buy private health insurance.
 

Uganda

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I heard stories years ago about lightbulbs in hospitals going un-replaced because of demarcation disputes. Im not sure if that still goes on, Have the electricians been outsourced yet?
Not sure about the light bulbs

but, meanwhile over in the hse in the internal audit department, if you’d like to join the dept as an auditor, the first requirement is that you must be a hse lifer before you can even apply.

a union “agreement”

donkeys grooming donkeys to become donkeys.
 

Patslatt1

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Unions have a job to do, and there's no such thing as "enough", or else another union will pop up and take members.

So long as the state / HSE is an easy "captive" squeeze, the rest of us will bust a gut to buy private health insurance.
The main task of most public sector unions is exploiting the government and public sector by using political tricks to f**k the system for huge pay and gold plated pensions.
 

Patslatt1

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Not sure about the light bulbs

but, meanwhile over in the hse in the internal audit department, if you’d like to join the dept as an auditor, the first requirement is that you must be a hse lifer before you can even apply.

a union “agreement”

donkeys grooming donkeys to become donkeys.
How many years does it take to be a lifer? Is promotion strictly based on time served?
 

Uganda

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How many years does it take to be a lifer? Is promotion strictly based on time served?
I dont know. But i assume its when you become permanent.

happy days. If youre a porter in the hse you can apply. If youre a very skilled auditor but work elsewhere you cant.
 

Uganda

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Unions have a job to do, and there's no such thing as "enough", or else another union will pop up and take members.

So long as the state / HSE is an easy "captive" squeeze, the rest of us will bust a gut to buy private health insurance.
And slaintecare wont change that

hire hundreds more lifers. Pay all lifers more money. Problem sorted.

except for long suffering patients
 

Patslatt1

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I dont know. But i assume its when you become permanent.

happy days. If youre a porter in the hse you can apply. If youre a very skilled auditor but work elsewhere you cant.
Buggins' turn at professional jobs. Bertie got rid of that in the civil service with a big pay bribe.
 

ruman

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And slaintecare wont change that

hire hundreds more lifers. Pay all lifers more money. Problem sorted.

except for long suffering patients
Absolutely and none of the 3 largest parties are offering anything to address it. In terms of Health it matters not a job which of them get the Minister for Health Job
 

Patslatt1

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Absolutely and none of the 3 largest parties are offering anything to address it. In terms of Health it matters not a job which of them get the Minister for Health Job
DEMARCATION & COV-19 VIRUS
Very rapid build ups of health care staff, ventilators and bed capacity are needed to cope with COV-19. If strict trade union demarcation rules and closed shops against nursing assistants are allowed to continue, it likely will be impossible to contain the contagion. How flexible will the hospital union be?
 


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