Unless IRA admit their killings were wrong, RA terrorism may escalate.

hollandia

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An IRA vicitms son whose father was brutally murdered 40 years ago by evil ira terrorists has said he fears a return to terrorism by mainstream terrorists unless the IRA will accept their killings were wrong and counterproductive.
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/victim-s-son-unless-ira-admit-their-killings-were-wrong-i-fear-return-of-bloodshed-1-8367981
A touching thing about this report was that he says what hurts most is the IRA murder of an eleven year old girl the day after his fathers murder, that's the compassion of the PUL community who weere constantly under attack by these terrorists.
No one, be they loyalist, republican or state forces are going to admit their entire campaigns were wrong. And, that is state policy on your side of the border. It's going to be let wither on the vine. My advice FWIW - get on with your life and look to the future.
 


McSlaggart

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In 1971, it was ethically questionable and ineffective, so no.
Questionable WTF? Putting people in prision with no evidence? In the first round they actually managed to have no loyalists put in internment !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

AhNowStop

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In 1971, it was ethically questionable and ineffective, so no.

In 1940, the internment of Oswald Mosley etc was, in the circumstances, acceptable.
Since WW2 ended the British have operated Internment in several locations around the world in different decades ... Its always been a disaster.. to say Internment in NI was "Questionable" is quite telling !!

the Boar war's another clinker .. Both Internment and a concentration camp .. lovely fellas the British Government..
 

DavidCaldwell

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Well thats certainly not what all the unionists posting here think.. They either deny collusion or excuse it.... just saying !!!
Again, I think you are misunderstanding their (and my) position. The security forces needed to try to get information about the paramilitaries, in order to better stop their activities.

Sometimes, in the process of getting information, there were dilemmas - this is normal and indeed may have happened on a massive scale in WW2 with the bombing of Coventry https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/look-winston-churchill-leave-coventry-8513284. These are problems, maybe mistakes, but not crimes on the part of the security forces.

Sometimes, maybe covered by the process of getting information, individual members of the security co-operated with Loyalist paramilitaries in their carrying out of killings etc. This is wrong and criminal.
 

McSlaggart

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Again, I think you are misunderstanding their (and my) position. The security forces needed to try to get information about the paramilitaries, in order to better stop their activities.

Sometimes, in the process of getting information, there were dilemmas - this is normal and indeed may have happened on a massive scale in WW2 with the bombing of Coventry https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/look-winston-churchill-leave-coventry-8513284. These are problems, maybe mistakes, but not crimes on the part of the security forces.
The British state did nothing about the fact it knew it had terrorists in its own ranks.
 

DavidCaldwell

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Questionable WTF? Putting people in prision with no evidence? In the first round they actually managed to have no loyalists put in internment !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK, in 1971 it was wrong.
 

GDPR

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David Caldwell do you believe that we will see a return to widespread violence in Ulster and if so what scenario do you think will it most likely emerge from?
 

DavidCaldwell

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The British state did nothing about the fact it knew it had terrorists in its own ranks.
Not true - it convicted several members of the UDR. In the wider picture, it convicted and imprisoned a higher proportion of Loyalist killers than of Republican killers.
 

AhNowStop

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Again, I think you are misunderstanding their (and my) position. The security forces needed to try to get information about the paramilitaries, in order to better stop their activities.

Sometimes, in the process of getting information, there were dilemmas - this is normal and indeed may have happened on a massive scale in WW2 with the bombing of Coventry https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/look-winston-churchill-leave-coventry-8513284. These are problems, maybe mistakes, but not crimes on the part of the security forces.

Sometimes, maybe covered by the process of getting information, individual members of the security co-operated with Loyalist paramilitaries in their carrying out of killings etc. This is wrong and criminal.
"dilemmas" .. you people fukin crack me up ... Go tell the Loughlinisland families their murdered relatives were "dilemmas" ....

Im misunderstanding nothing btw ... I see completely what you are !!
 

McSlaggart

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OK, in 1971 it was wrong.
All of those arrested were Irish nationalists, the vast majority of them Catholic. Due to faulty intelligence, many had no links with the IRA. Ulster loyalist paramilitaries were also carrying out acts of violence, which were mainly directed against Catholics and Irish nationalists, but no loyalists were included in the sweep.[1]

The introduction of internment, the way the arrests were carried out, and the abuse of those arrested, led to mass protests and a sharp increase in violence. Amid the violence, about 7,000 people fled or were forced out of their homes. The interrogation techniques used on the internees were described by the European Commission of Human Rights in 1976 as torture, but the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) ruled on appeal in 1978 that while the techniques were "inhuman and degrading", they did not constitute torture.[2] It was later revealed that the British government had withheld information from the ECHR and that a policy of torture had in fact been authorized by British government ministers.[3] In December 2014, the Irish government asked the ECHR to revise its 1978 judgement.[4]

'wikipedia

The British government used torture on people who knew nothing. The UK government has gone so far as to withhold information............. they also allowed loyalist terrorists to stay in its own ranks.
 

DavidCaldwell

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David Caldwell do you believe that we will see a return to widespread violence in Ulster and if so what scenario do you think will it most likely emerge from?
No. There may be isolated terrorist attacks, but a sufficiently high proportion of the perpetrators will be arrested, convicted and imprisoned that there will be little tendency for there to be a spiral of violence.

Based on the events of the last 10 years, it looks like terrorist attacks are more likely to come from Republicans than Loyalists, but I recognise that this could change. Please bear in mind that I have no in-depth knowledge of the matter.
 

mangaire2

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Unless IRA admit their killings were wrong, RA terrorism may escalate.

nah -
The Protestant State for the Protestant People is no more.
the Catholics/Nationalists of the Six Counties are more confident now, than they have been at any stage, since before the Plantation of Ulster.
& a UI will evolve in its own good time, without the need for the firing of another shot.

some of the west brits down here tell us that they are opposed to a UI,
because of the threat of British Unionist terrorist violence !!!!!!
what do you think of that DOG ?
 

DavidCaldwell

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All of those arrested were Irish nationalists, the vast majority of them Catholic. Due to faulty intelligence, many had no links with the IRA. Ulster loyalist paramilitaries were also carrying out acts of violence, which were mainly directed against Catholics and Irish nationalists, but no loyalists were included in the sweep.[1]

The introduction of internment, the way the arrests were carried out, and the abuse of those arrested, led to mass protests and a sharp increase in violence. Amid the violence, about 7,000 people fled or were forced out of their homes. The interrogation techniques used on the internees were described by the European Commission of Human Rights in 1976 as torture, but the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) ruled on appeal in 1978 that while the techniques were "inhuman and degrading", they did not constitute torture.[2] It was later revealed that the British government had withheld information from the ECHR and that a policy of torture had in fact been authorized by British government ministers.[3] In December 2014, the Irish government asked the ECHR to revise its 1978 judgement.[4]

'wikipedia

The British government used torture on people who knew nothing. The UK government has gone so far as to withhold information............. they also allowed loyalist terrorists to stay in its own ranks.
I have said before that everything you have good reason to consider an injustice, I would agree is an injustice and should not have happened.

Do you agree that it is reasonable for me to take this position? Do you agree that it would be reasonable for you to take the same position with regard to things that I have good reason to consider as injustices?
 

McSlaggart

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I have said before that everything you have good reason to consider an injustice, I would agree is an injustice and should not have happened.

Do you agree that it is reasonable for me to take this position? Do you agree that it would be reasonable for you to take the same position with regard to things that I have good reason to consider as injustices?
It is not the injustices that should be noted but the need to cover it up. The fact that the British state covered up the fact that it knew it had terrorists in its ranks and did nothing about it.

"In the BBC Panorama documentary, Britain's Secret Terror Deals, to be screened on Thursday, investigative reporter Darragh MacIntyre investigates allegations that the state colluded with paramilitary killers and covered up their crimes.

MacIntyre meets the families who have been fighting for decades to uncover the government's darkest secrets and confronts some of those believed to be complicit.

The murder of Sunday World reporter Martin O’Hagan in 2001 and two massacres, at Sean Graham bookmaker’s in 1992 where five people died, and the killings of nine Protestant men returning from work in Kingsmill village in 1976, are among the cases where state and paramilitary collusion is alleged to have been covered up.

Panorama also revealed an assault rifle used in the Sean Graham massacre in 1992, which police said had been disposed of, ended up on display in the Imperial War Museum."

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...ated-says-amnesty-international-31261593.html
 
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DavidCaldwell

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"dilemmas" .. you people fukin crack me up ... Go tell the Loughlinisland families their murdered relatives were "dilemmas" ....

Im misunderstanding nothing btw ... I see completely what you are !!
I would agree with the bereaved families that the killings were murder and that everyone guilty should be brought to justice. I would try to be respectful - for example, by using the normal spelling of Loughinisland.
 

AhNowStop

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I would agree with the bereaved families that the killings were murder and that everyone guilty should be brought to justice. I would try to be respectful - for example, by using the normal spelling of Loughinisland.
Oh really :roll: .. So you're pulling me for being disrespectful for a "spelling mistake" whilst you call the 6 murdered innocent people "dilemmas" ...

You're quite the falla arent you !!


Tell me this btw, why are thew Brits trying to get an amnesty for their clown forces ? ...
 

DavidCaldwell

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It is not the injustices that should be noted but the need to cover it up. The fact that the British state covered up the fact that it knew it had terrorists in its ranks and did nothing about it.

"In the BBC Panorama documentary, Britain's Secret Terror Deals, to be screened on Thursday, investigative reporter Darragh MacIntyre investigates allegations that the state colluded with paramilitary killers and covered up their crimes.

MacIntyre meets the families who have been fighting for decades to uncover the government's darkest secrets and confronts some of those believed to be complicit.

The murder of Sunday World reporter Martin O’Hagan in 2001 and two massacres, at Sean Graham bookmaker’s in 1992 where five people died, and the killings of nine Protestant men returning from work in Kingsmill village in 1976, are among the cases where state and paramilitary collusion is alleged to have been covered up.

Panorama also revealed an assault rifle used in the Sean Graham massacre in 1992, which police said had been disposed of, ended up on display in the Imperial War Museum."

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...ated-says-amnesty-international-31261593.html
You seem to be reluctant to express agreement with both the OP and my question "Do you agree that the things that I have good reason to consider injustices were indeed injustices?"

You may feel that agreeing would be humiliating. If so, please note that I then have already had the humiliation.

You may disagree. If so (and I hope not), why one rule for you and another for me?
 

DavidCaldwell

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Oh really :roll: .. So you're pulling me for being disrespectful for a "spelling mistake" whilst you call the 6 murdered innocent people "dilemmas" ...

You're quite the falla arent you !!


Tell me this btw, why are thew Brits trying to get an amnesty for their clown forces ? ...
I did not call the 6 killed in Loughinisland, nor the 568 killed in Coventry a "dilemma" - but you know that.
 

AhNowStop

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I did not call the 6 killed in Loughinisland, nor the 568 killed in Coventry a "dilemma" - but you know that.
Really ?


Post No #46 on this thread... when responding to my point about collusion..

Sometimes, in the process of getting information, there were dilemmas

Again, why do you think HMG are seeking an amnesty for their security forces who served here ? ... more "dilemmas" maybe :roll:
 


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