Up to €2billion to be cut from Social Welfare: Times

Broke

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Oct 1, 2010
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478
Having worked for 30 + years and paid tax and prsi I was made redundant in 2009. I am now struggling to exist (not live) on €196 / week. Yet I would suffer a reduction in benefits if in return I could see the people and politicians who allowed us get into this mess, locked up behind bars.
Preferably also see them in the zoo where those who could afford to could visit and throw fruit,nuts and rotten vegetables at these idiots, in return for a small fee that would go to the exchequer.
Alas , not likely to ever happen and those who caused the mess will remain untouched as usual.
I know how you feel if the people who caused the mess were locked up and payed back what they borrowed,you would feel better taking the hit. Alan Shatter said 41 bankers are locked up in the U.S in the last two years,yet we have none. We need to do what the French are doing,so the rich pay for there sins or else we will be bled dry.
 


gijoe

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The fact is that fool cowen should never have given big welfare increases during the "boom" in the first place, there was no need for anybody to be on the dole from 2004-2007 but cowen gave an extra €20 per week in all his budgets
I think the pension got a €20 boost one year but that was all. Otherwise I remember €10, €12 and €14 to the general social welfare rate.
 

eoghanacht

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The fact is that fool cowen should never have given big welfare increases during the "boom" in the first place, there was no need for anybody to be on the dole from 2004-2007 but cowen gave an extra €20 per week in all his budgets
There was feck all on the dole thats why the offaly alco and his cohort raised it so much. Thats why it was easy to raise it.

Besides there was no reason to be on the dole from the year 2000, but now here's an idea why not cut the dole of all those who refused to work when there was work out there. I know of a few around my way like that
 

White Rose

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*sheesh*....

No, my point(and not a complicated one) was that, through no 'fault' of their own, their disposible income reduces drastically with twins, even with the twins allowance. I even did the sums for you.

I'm guessing this is paid to your wife and not yourself.....?
Yes your disposable income reduces, but that is what happens when you have children. There is a chance you will have twins. Why get a lot more for twins than 2 children, born say, 18 months apart

My wife gets the money and she is happy to get it but thinks it a bit crazy too. The state is not there to give you a comfortable lifestyle no matter what your life choices. If you're going to have children, think very, very carefully about it
 

gijoe

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I just checked on the legislation to 2002. Our tax base is currently at 2002 levels so I looked at 2002 social welfare rates:

Basic Unemployment Assistance: €124.80
Contributory Pension: €157.30
Child Benefit: first two circa €87 3rd and subsequent circa €110 (It was not changed from 2001 which was £67.50 and £86).

Add say 25% for inflation say,

UA €156; Pension €196; CB €109 and €137.50.

Compared to 2010,

UA €196; Pension €230.30; CB €150 and €187.

Plenty of room for cutting there. Bringing rates down to index linked 2002 rates would save circa €4billion at least.
 
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White Rose

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I've been reading some of your replies and you really are a spanner..

maybe we should just rebuild the slum tenements that was Dublin and other urban areas and throw large familes back into two rooms with commual toilets and wash ups...?

your taking the car argument out of context...anyway a car provides and VAT/VRT plus taxes on fuel and road tax etc.so the government gets it's cut.....

Every family with children should have either an apartment of a house big enough to house them properly...god knows there are enough lying idle...these estates could easily be finished and used except for the greed of poeple in this country.....
If only I'd known that when I was living in a house that was too small and us with young kids- It's the government's job to give me a bigger house. Stupid me, I actually went out and worked harder to try and afford a bigger house or even to build an extension to the one i had
 

dotski_w_

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Yes your disposable income reduces, but that is what happens when you have children. There is a chance you will have twins. Why get a lot more for twins than 2 children, born say, 18 months apart
you don't get the same double whammies - for example the time they spend in pre-school childcare doesn't overlap as much. First communion happens at the same time etc, however the basic point re the larger families does mean that, yes, it's harder if you have a lot of small children at the same time, it's just harder again if they are at precisely the same time. Mothers of twins are I read somewhere more than twice as likely to quit work than other mothers due to financial reasons associated with childcare.

But the sums I outlined above still stand (I'm not going to repeat them in every post), and your suggestion that people should not have children because they may be among the 3% who have twins is, quite frankly, one of the most ludicrous things I've heard.

My wife gets the money and she is happy to get it but thinks it a bit crazy too. The state is not there to give you a comfortable lifestyle no matter what your life choices. If you're going to have children, think very, very carefully about it
First of all, I think your wife would put you straight if she knew you were suggesting that it gives her a comfortable lifestyle! Second of all, no-one is suggesting that it should, the point is that cutbacks at this point that disproportionately hit those families who already have lower disposable income are unfair, and also disproportionately hit children. Tax increases which share the pain equally are fairer.

You can spin all you like, but that's the reality.
 

dotski_w_

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I just checked on the legislation to 2002. Our tax base is currently at 2002 levels so I looked at 2002 social welfare rates:

Basic Unemployment Assistance: €124.80
Contributory Pension: €157.30
Child Benefit: first two circa €87 3rd and subsequent circa €110 (It was not changed from 2001 which was £67.50 and £86).

Add say 25% for inflation say,

UA €156; Pension €196; CB €109 and €137.50.

Compared to 2010,

UA €196; Pension €230.30; CB €150 and €187.

Plenty of room for cutting there. Bringing rates down to index linked 2002 rates would save circa €4billion at least.
Cool! Can you have my mortgage costs re-set at 2002 levels also please?

This site is great, altogether, I don't understand why we don't just staff the cabinet with the posters here, the problems of the world would be sorted in no time! :D
 

White Rose

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you don't get the same double whammies - for example the time they spend in pre-school childcare doesn't overlap as much. First communion happens at the same time etc, however the basic point re the larger families does mean that, yes, it's harder if you have a lot of small children at the same time, it's just harder again if they are at precisely the same time. Mothers of twins are I read somewhere more than twice as likely to quit work than other mothers due to financial reasons associated with childcare.

But the sums I outlined above still stand (I'm not going to repeat them in every post), and your suggestion that people should not have children because they may be among the 3% who have twins is, quite frankly, one of the most ludicrous things I've heard.



First of all, I think your wife would put you straight if she knew you were suggesting that it gives her a comfortable lifestyle! Second of all, no-one is suggesting that it should, the point is that cutbacks at this point that disproportionately hit those families who already have lower disposable income are unfair, and also disproportionately hit children. Tax increases which share the pain equally are fairer.

You can spin all you like, but that's the reality.
I never said someone shouldn't have children because they could have twins. People should think carefully before having children full stop.

Obviously childrens allowance shouldn't be cut unless it's necessary. Now we are facing cuts. If you don't cut childrens allowance you will have to cut the old age pension or hospital beds or whatever.

The twins bonus is daft. I can understand a one off payment at communion age but not more EVERY month. Is there any other country in the world that has this? (Don't mention this to my wife )
 

dotski_w_

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I added 25% to provide the real value today of 2002 rates. All adjusted to reflect the cost of living.
do you actually think that covers the difference in the typical mortgage costs of a young family? And why do you not consider bring taxes up from the levels they were reduced to by McCreevy?
 

dotski_w_

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I never said someone shouldn't have children because they could have twins. People should think carefully before having children full stop.
Indeed, although 99% of the families affected by such a cut already have those kids, and can't just send them back!

Obviously childrens allowance shouldn't be cut unless it's necessary. Now we are facing cuts. If you don't cut childrens allowance you will have to cut the old age pension or hospital beds or whatever.
or increase taxes to share it among everyone.

The twins bonus is daft. I can understand a one off payment at communion age but not more EVERY month. Is there any other country in the world that has this?
Other countries have things like subsidised childcare, free GP care, totally free education etc. Apples and oranges etc.

(Don't mention this to my wife )
OK, your secret's safe with me! ;)
 

theghost

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May 26, 2009
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I just checked on the legislation to 2002. Our tax base is currently at 2002 levels so I looked at 2002 social welfare rates:

Basic Unemployment Assistance: €124.80
Contributory Pension: €157.30
Child Benefit: first two circa €87 3rd and subsequent circa €110 (It was not changed from 2001 which was £67.50 and £86).

Add say 25% for inflation say,

UA €156; Pension €196; CB €109 and €137.50.

Compared to 2010,

UA €196; Pension €230.30; CB €150 and €187.

Plenty of room for cutting there. Bringing rates down to index linked 2002 rates would save circa €4billion at least.
More room for cutting - bring TD's salaries and expenses down to index linked2002 levels also. After all, they as much as welfare recipients are payed for out of the tax base
 

gijoe

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More room for cutting - bring TD's salaries and expenses down to index linked2002 levels also. After all, they as much as welfare recipients are payed for out of the tax base
No argument there.
 

Phoenix9

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Nov 4, 2010
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Why cant a leading newspaper publish what Non EU citizens get when coming into this country! We see them in cars and houses which is likely they cannot afford.
This is happening when our bright newly qualified students are being made leave this country.
We cannot afford to be letting this continue!!!
 

petervalhala

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May 18, 2008
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Why cant a leading newspaper publish what Non EU citizens get when coming into this country! We see them in cars and houses which is likely they cannot afford.
This is happening when our bright newly qualified students are being made leave this country.
We cannot afford to be letting this continue!!!
Posting actual facts would be a lot more interesting as opposed to racist rants
 

subic

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Nov 12, 2010
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1,840
Having worked for 30 + years and paid tax and prsi I was made redundant in 2009. I am now struggling to exist (not live) on €196 / week. Yet I would suffer a reduction in benefits if in return I could see the people and politicians who allowed us get into this mess, locked up behind bars.
Preferably also see them in the zoo where those who could afford to could visit and throw fruit,nuts and rotten vegetables at these idiots, in return for a small fee that would go to the exchequer.
Alas , not likely to ever happen and those who caused the mess will remain untouched as usual.
Sorry to hear about your situation, unfortunately your benefits will probably be cut to the same extent as all those dole lifers and people working in a Spar shop for 6 months. The system does not take contributions into account.
 


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