• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Update From Pakistan


disenchanted

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
25
Well, fellow P.IE forum members. I've arrived back in Pakistan to find the blown out windows of my office covered in plastic sheeting. The view from my window is of the charred skeleton remains of what used to be the landmark Marriot Hotel, Islamabad. The place I used to buy my beer.

I supposed my choices had been limited, but took solace in the fact that, as a member of the UN Club, I can lounge by the pool, sipping reasonably priced cold beers and getting a sun tan.

Then the following arrived in my inbox:

Dear Members,

We would like to inform you that due the prevailing security situation in Islamabad, the UN Club will be closed as of today 24 September 2008. We shall provide you with an update on the evolving development soon.

We kindly apologize in advance for the inconveniences caused.

Thank you.


Hmmmmm...

I received another email telling me to:
1. Avoid markets and if absolutely necessary, send the domestic staff instead (they're dispensable)
2. Avoid all restaurants and hotels
3. Only exercise in certain sectors of the city

What can I say? I've returned to a war zone where anything is possible.

The best analysis of the situation in Pakistan is the one below:
USA Has Bared Its Teeth

By Asif Haroon Raja

21/09/08 "Asian Tribune" -- The US and its allies succeeded in toppling Taliban regime in November 2001 and replacing it with a puppet regime, but the Taliban were neither militarily defeated nor eliminated from the system. But for effective encirclement of Afghanistan from all directions and massive air support provided by USA, the Northern Alliance could not have made any progress. Once the Taliban realised that they were no more in a position to offer resistance particularly after Pakistan ditched them, they considered it prudent to carry out a tactical withdrawal from Kabul and most took shelter in Pashtun dominated southern and eastern Afghanistan. Some trickled into FATA and Baluchistan where they had their kith and kin and some moved into Iran. They remained inactive till 2002 but utilised this time to regroup and refit themselves to be able to strike back at the invading forces that had devastated their country. Bush and his teams of neo-cons felt complacent that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda had been taken care of and only the remnants had to be flushed out. It was this smugness which impelled them to invade and occupy Iraq in March 2003.

In the meanwhile, the vices that had been eliminated by the Taliban during their short rule reappeared in a big way. Besides lack of justice, war lordism, corruption, poppy growing, drug business and nepotism reigned supreme. The Taliban and their supporters were either brutally killed or put in Bagram jail and subjected to horrendous torture. The Pashtuns being in great majority were persecuted and power got concentrated in the hands of non-Pashtun Northern Alliance elements and war lords. The occupation forces inflicted heavy collateral damage on civilians whenever they confronted the militants. These developments disillusioned the Afghans and sympathy wave among the Pashtuns living both sides of the border started to shift towards the Taliban. Induction of NATO forces in 2003 together with deteriorating law and order situation provided the spark to ignite insurgency.


Read on

Clanrickard, this one's for you...
 


disenchanted

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
25
Oh, and the man on the street is pi**ed off!

People are now beginning to view this as us (Pakistan) against them (the US).
 

Helium Three

Active member
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
186
Thanks for the link. No sense of any improvement with the removal of Musharraf then?
 

Bogwarrior

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
322
Disenchanted, how fair were the last elections in your view? I was amazed Mr 10% got elected to be honest.
I give him 6 months till he's removed from office, probably in pieces.
 

disenchanted

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
25
They were fair in that he got the necessary number of votes in the Parliaments and Senates, but they were unfair insofar as the elected representatives were not exercising the will of the people.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,951
disenchanted said:
Ooooooh I see So it wasn't a bunch of religous fanatics who blew up the Marriot killing tens of innocent civilians it was the big bad evil US. :roll:

The US and its allies succeeded in toppling Taliban regime in November 2001 and replacing it with a puppet regime,
You mean democratically elected? Karzai was democratically elected. I know this unrages the anti-American lobby but it is a fact jack.

[quote:2zmfp7sg]they considered it prudent to carry out a tactical withdrawal from Kabul and most took shelter in Pashtun dominated southern and eastern Afghanistan. Some trickled into FATA and Baluchistan where they had their kith and kin and some moved into Iran
.
Utter utter rubbish. The FATA is awash with them. Peshawar is crawling with Taliban. I spoke to some Pakistani not 2 nights ago and they said that since the US toppled the Taliban (of which they were mighty glad) these "evil men" (their words exactly) have infested the North West frontier making life hell for the people that live there.

the vices that had been eliminated by the Taliban during their short rule reappeared in a big way. Besides lack of justice, war lordism, corruption, poppy growing, drug business and nepotism reigned supreme. The Taliban and their supporters were either brutally killed or put in Bagram jail and subjected to horrendous torture. The Pashtuns being in great majority were persecuted and power got concentrated in the hands of non-Pashtun Northern Alliance elements and war lords. The occupation forces inflicted heavy collateral damage on civilians whenever they confronted the militants.
This is plain propaganda and anyone with a basic grasp of the situation knows this is not what happened. Have alittle look at the real sufferers http://www.rawa.org/gallery.html. Yes the US goofed. The mistake they made was not obliterating the Taliban once and for all and chasing them into the FATA and wiping them out. Life is nasty brutal and short in Afghanistan but only a wind up merchant or someone whose mind is twisted to see an anti-American angle on anything that is wrong with the world would think otherwise. Byt the way Karzai is Pashtun so
The Pashtuns being in great majority were persecuted and power got concentrated in the hands of non-Pashtun Northern Alliance elements
is patently false.

[/quote:2zmfp7sg]
A very objective site :roll:
 

cHeal

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
303
Clanrickard said:
disenchanted said:
Ooooooh I see So it wasn't a bunch of religous fanatics who blew up the Marriot killing tens of innocent civilians it was the big bad evil US. :roll:

The US and its allies succeeded in toppling Taliban regime in November 2001 and replacing it with a puppet regime,
You mean democratically elected? Karzai was democratically elected. I know this unrages the anti-American lobby but it is a fact jack.

[quote:w5a808h0]they considered it prudent to carry out a tactical withdrawal from Kabul and most took shelter in Pashtun dominated southern and eastern Afghanistan. Some trickled into FATA and Baluchistan where they had their kith and kin and some moved into Iran
.
Utter utter rubbish. The FATA is awash with them. Peshawar is crawling with Taliban. I spoke to some Pakistani not 2 nights ago and they said that since the US toppled the Taliban (of which they were mighty glad) these "evil men" (their words exactly) have infested the North West frontier making life hell for the people that live there.

[quote:w5a808h0]the vices that had been eliminated by the Taliban during their short rule reappeared in a big way. Besides lack of justice, war lordism, corruption, poppy growing, drug business and nepotism reigned supreme. The Taliban and their supporters were either brutally killed or put in Bagram jail and subjected to horrendous torture. The Pashtuns being in great majority were persecuted and power got concentrated in the hands of non-Pashtun Northern Alliance elements and war lords. The occupation forces inflicted heavy collateral damage on civilians whenever they confronted the militants.
This is plain propaganda and anyone with a basic grasp of the situation knows this is not what happened. Have alittle look at the real sufferers http://www.rawa.org/gallery.html. Yes the US goofed. The mistake they made was not obliterating the Taliban once and for all and chasing them into the FATA and wiping them out. Life is nasty brutal and short in Afghanistan but only a wind up merchant or someone whose mind is twisted to see an anti-American angle on anything that is wrong with the world would think otherwise. Byt the way Karzai is Pashtun so
The Pashtuns being in great majority were persecuted and power got concentrated in the hands of non-Pashtun Northern Alliance elements
is patently false.

[/quote:w5a808h0]
A very objective site :roll:[/quote:w5a808h0]


EDIT: meh.
 

Rahood

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
58
Is it true that British Airways finally got the nod and gave up on you guys.

I lived in England for a long time. Indians were never an issue .....
 

garlandgreen

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
869
A failed state. It's a pity that Al Jinnah didn't live long enough to see just what he created.
 

Thac0man

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
6,482
Twitter
twit taa woo
garlandgreen said:
A failed state. It's a pity that Al Jinnah didn't live long enough to see just what he created.
I do not think this mess can be laid an the door of Jinnah. I would put the blame on Zia, who foisted over responsibility for the judiciary to Islamic courts rather than run the country himself. Benezir Bhutto and then Sharif further enhanced the role of Islamists in mainstream Pakistani life while cementing power for themselves. It is interesting that during Bhuttos tenure as PM she did pass a single piece of legistaion.... :shock:
 

code twinkle

Active member
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
156
Thac0man said:
garlandgreen said:
A failed state. It's a pity that Al Jinnah didn't live long enough to see just what he created.
I do not think this mess can be laid an the door of Jinnah. I would put the blame on Zia, who foisted over responsibility for the judiciary to Islamic courts rather than run the country himself. Benezir Bhutto and then Sharif further enhanced the role of Islamists in mainstream Pakistani life while cementing power for themselves. It is interesting that during Bhuttos tenure as PM she did pass a single piece of legistaion.... :shock:
oh come on Thac surely france and britain are to blame for destroying the moghuls, ending muslim influence in india leading to the desire for a seperate muslim state??
 

Thac0man

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
6,482
Twitter
twit taa woo
code twinkle said:
oh come on Thac surely france and britain are to blame for destroying the moghuls, ending muslim influence in india leading to the desire for a seperate muslim state??
You mean ending Muslim domination of India surely? That ultimitely is what led to the creation of Pakistan because Muslims were unwilling to live as equals or be a minority in an independent India. We should not forget that Pakistan already suffered a breakup once before, Bangladesh was originally a Pakistani territory before it cast off the yoke of Islamabad.

What is interesting is that Bangladesh, a country with an absolute Muslim majority, is completely surrounded by India, yet peacefully co-exists. Something Pakistan seems unable to do with any of its neighbours. Only China, who have extensive economic interests in Pakistan has no violent disagreements with Pakistan (but as Chinas self imposed isolation has only recently ended, it might only be a matter of time until Pakistan or China dream up a grievance).
 

code twinkle

Active member
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
156
Thac0man said:
code twinkle said:
oh come on Thac surely france and britain are to blame for destroying the moghuls, ending muslim influence in india leading to the desire for a seperate muslim state??
You mean ending Muslim domination of India surely? That ultimitely is what led to the creation of Pakistan because Muslims were unwilling to live as equals or be a minority in an independent India. We should not forget that Pakistan already suffered a breakup once before, Bangladesh was originally a Pakistani territory before it cast off the yoke of Islamabad.

What is interesting is that Bangladesh, a country with an absolute Muslim majority, is completely surrounded by India, yet peacefully co-exists. Something Pakistan seems unable to do with any of its neighbours. Only China, who have extensive economic interests in Pakistan has no violent disagreements with Pakistan (but as Chinas self imposed isolation has only recently ended, it might only be a matter of time until Pakistan or China dream up a grievance).
No I meant influence - it is widely accepted that the longevity of the Moghul Empire in the region was down to a) military strength and b)religious tolerance.

As for your point about Bangladesh, surely the answers in the statement "completely surrounded by India"!
 

Thac0man

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
6,482
Twitter
twit taa woo
code twinkle said:
No I meant influence - it is widely accepted that the longevity of the Moghul Empire in the region was down to a) military strength and b)religious tolerance.
The Moghuls, like the British, were invaders. Like the British they ruled as a minority. And like the British their rule came to an abrupt end. I fail to see the point you are making. Certainly no one is calling for the re-establishment of an Islamic empire to govern India (which is a secular republic).
 

disenchanted

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
25
Well, my buddies' wives and kids are all leaving. Some of my friends are leaving too. Still trying to process what's going on. I had to sign in to my friend's place tonight. A bearded man with a pen in one hand and a gun in the other.

Thankfully, I leave for Bangkok in the morning, if the airport is open that is, since it was closed earlier today. Threats of attacks were received.

Right now, it doesn't matter who is behind the violence. Pakistan is descending into war.

I'm quite worried about where this is heading.

I worry about my friends and colleagues who can't get out...
 

Catalpa

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
10,301
disenchanted said:
Well, my buddies' wives and kids are all leaving. Some of my friends are leaving too. Still trying to process what's going on. I had to sign in to my friend's place tonight. A bearded man with a pen in one hand and a gun in the other.

Thankfully, I leave for Bangkok in the morning, if the airport is open that is, since it was closed earlier today. Threats of attacks were received.

Right now, it doesn't matter who is behind the violence. Pakistan is descending into war.

I'm quite worried about where this is heading.

I worry about my friends and colleagues who can't get out...
Pakistan is descending into war.

Who will be fighting who?

And will the Army split?
 

disenchanted

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
25
The way things are going, nobody will even know who they're fighting against.

It looks like heading towards a showdown between Pakistan Army/One Faction of the ISI + Taliban Vs USA, Another ISI Faction & Radical Extremist Militants sponsored by foreign forces.

But I could well be wrong.

God knows what's going on right now.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top