Uplands Access in Ireland.

hiker

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I'm trying to get a copy of the document Labour brought out on Access to the Irish Uplands just before the election.

Can any Labour posters point me in the right direction?





Please!
 


Rebelman

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this policy did not go down well with labours rural candidates or potential supporters, I challenged 3 labour candidates on it and all said they were personally opposed and they would oppose it if they were elected.
 

hiker

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Rebelman said:
this policy did not go down well with labours rural candidates or potential supporters, I challenged 3 labour candidates on it and all said they were personally opposed and they would oppose it if they were elected.
Do you know what the main objections were from the rural community?

I have read various articles on this and there seems to be some confusion on liability in the event of an accident and the idea that "hoardes" of hillwalkers would suddenly materialise out of thin air to walk all over farmers front gardens. :roll:

The MCI (Mountaineering Council of Ireland) welcomed the Labour paper if I'm not mistaken.
I quite like it but then again I like the Scottish Right-to-Roam which is about 10 times more liberal than the Labour Paper, so I'm a bit amazed at the rural reaction and in particular the farmers reaction.
 

stewiegriffin

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Rebelman said:
this policy did not go down well with labours rural candidates or potential supporters, I challenged 3 labour candidates on it and all said they were personally opposed and they would oppose it if they were elected.
Has any policy ever, in the history of the world gone down well with rural folks?(apart from giving them sacks of free money)
 

hiker

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stewiegriffin said:
Rebelman said:
this policy did not go down well with labours rural candidates or potential supporters, I challenged 3 labour candidates on it and all said they were personally opposed and they would oppose it if they were elected.
Has any policy ever, in the history of the world gone down well with rural folks?(apart from giving them sacks of free money)

Cynic :lol:

And its not all rural folk. There are many B&Bs, shops, restaraunts,hotels,activities holiday companies etc etc who are begging for the Urban (Irish and European) Hillwalkers to come and spend,spend,spend in this country.
Its landowners who are blocking this bonanza and I suspect because the universal question, "Whats in it for me?" is being asked.
 

Rebelman

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The farming lobby are the main objecters - obviously the public liability is a primary concern. But the other ones include - not obeying "the conutry code" e.g. leaving gates open, littering, damaging crops and ditches, disturbing animals, starting fires etc. all of which have a direct impact on the farmer.

I come from a rural area myself and although we were not farmers I worked on farms growing up and I am employed currently in agribusiness. I also am someone who enjoys walking and can see the tourism potential in it.

What is needed is COMPRIMISE with both sides sitting down and agreeing a code of practise for walkers and some agreed routes. Also something will have to be done to sort out the insurance issue. Those involved in country sports such as hunting, shooting, coursing and fishing have done this in the past with the farmers.
 

Maximus

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Rebelman said:
The farming lobby are the main objecters - obviously the public liability is a primary concern. But the other ones include - not obeying "the conutry code" e.g. leaving gates open, littering, damaging crops and ditches, disturbing animals, starting fires etc. all of which have a direct impact on the farmer.

I come from a rural area myself and although we were not farmers I worked on farms growing up and I am employed currently in agribusiness. I also am someone who enjoys walking and can see the tourism potential in it.

What is needed is COMPRIMISE with both sides sitting down and agreeing a code of practise for walkers and some agreed routes. Also something will have to be done to sort out the insurance issue. Those involved in country sports such as hunting, shooting, coursing and fishing have done this in the past with the farmers.
Having just returned from a visit to the Scottish Highlands and having experienced their approach to it, I think there’s a lot we could do here for promote the sector better. I’d agree a compromise is required, will be interesting to see what the FF/GP government comes up with.
 

emeraldisle

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What is needed is COMPRIMISE with both sides sitting down and agreeing a code of practise for walkers and some agreed routes.
They've been 'sitting down' for years. The farmers wanted ongoing money to permit access. More money for doing nothing.

Farmers are completely screwing up rural Ireland. Farming is a dying industry. When other industries die, the resulting unemployed go and retrain and find jobs in other industries. They don't try to pull the rug out from under everyone near them who still has a job. Farmers are covering the country with one-off housing and banning hill-walkers, thus wrecking tourism for generations to come. It's a tragedy.

Bring on the legislation.
 

Auditor #9

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There was a report in the farming section in the Indo the other day. A crowd called Keep Ireland Open wants to establish a network of trails around rural Ireland which the farmers are objecting to because they are not getting, yep, sacks of money when the trails are progressing through their land. Nowhere near their windows, mind.

I think the labour proposal was to nationalise(?) all private land above 150metres. How can we cook up more National Parks? Anyone familiar with the Killarney one would hardly object to the economical and other benefits parks bring.
 

ocean

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Auditor #9 said:
I think the labour proposal was to nationalise(?) all private land above 150metres.
Nationalise? That's not what Labour is proposing at all. Lands above 150m would be designated as 'public access lands'. Different kettle of fish.
 

Maximus

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ocean said:
Auditor #9 said:
I think the labour proposal was to nationalise(?) all private land above 150metres.
Nationalise? That's not what Labour is proposing at all. Lands above 150m would be designated as 'public access lands'. Different kettle of fish.
Killiney Hill is just over 150m (153). There are plenty of residences in and around Dun Laoghaire Rathdown / South Dublin that would be over the 150m threshold. It would be unfair on those residents to designate their properties 'public access lands'. I think something a little higher; say 250 to 300 meters would be more apt.
 

hmmm

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No-one is proposing tramping through someones front garden, the IFA in particular have taken to scaremongering on this issue. Walkers want access to uplands areas which they will share with a small number of curious sheep, farmers are not threatened. I suspect the IFA smell money on this, personally I think it's time the rural hotels, b&bs, shops & pubs started to make their feelings known - they are the ones missing out on the massive numbers of tourists who could be attracted to walk and socialise in rural areas. Those same tourists are not the types that typically come to Dublin on a 2 night stag weekend.
 

hiker

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Auditor #9 said:
A crowd called Keep Ireland Open wants to establish a network of trails around rural Ireland
This group was set up by a Mr Roger Garland. Familiar????

hmmm said:
I suspect the IFA smell money on this,
You suspect right. I have heard of a "per/meter rate" of payment from the Dept of Agriculture but I think this was rejected out of hand by the minister.

I think what landowners fear the most is the Scottish Solution; unlimited access to open hills legislated into law. This may reduced their ability to develop the land at some later date.

This is why the "rights-of-way" issue is causing such grief. 200 year old pathways can prevent the building of a new house or hotel etc etc.

Now I can understand this point of view.

If "rights-of-way" were replaced by a "right-to-access" then that might prevent particular pathways to the uplands being lgislated in stone, so to speak and allowing the hillwalkers to have a "right-to-access via any alternative route" available at the time.
 

Auditor #9

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hiker said:
I think what landowners fear the most is the Scottish Solution; unlimited access to open hills legislated into law. This may reduced their ability to develop the land at some later date.

This is why the "rights-of-way" issue is causing such grief. 200 year old pathways can prevent the building of a new house or hotel etc etc.

Now I can understand this point of view.

If "rights-of-way" were replaced by a "right-to-access" then that might prevent particular pathways to the uplands being lgislated in stone, so to speak and allowing the hillwalkers to have a "right-to-access via any alternative route" available at the time.
This stuff was debated on Prime Time last night and Albert Smith was very furious. Interesting to see foreigners as infuriated as us at our own people. Not surprising given that there was one bo11ox up in Mayo who had fenced off his own private beach! HANG HIM IMMEDIATELY!!

Seriously, a report is due from the minister - O'Cuiv - in about one month. Smith doesn't expect legislation. O'Cuiv hummed and hawed for half the show last night...
 

stonethrower

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Was at a meeting yesterday where the ICMSA fumed at the prospect of a law allowing for a right to roam. They said they would only accept some regulation where people would have to apply for permission to access lands.

Coming from a rural background I understand and sympathise with the concerns of farmers and landowners. I don't think the real issue here is money. I think farmers and rural dwellers have concerns about damage and the impact of people being given uncontrolled access to their property.

I know of cases where people have left gates open, have frightened animals, have created gaps in fences etc. Despite the fact that many urban dwellers have withdrawn behind their electronic gates and buzzers, they seem to think that farmers and rural dwellers should throw their gates open to all!!
 

nawbut

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perhaps

hiker said:
I suspect because the universal question, "Whats in it for me?" is being asked.
Perhaps (and 'where will they sh1t?' may cross their minds occasionally as well).
 

Auditor #9

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stonethrower said:
Was at a meeting yesterday where the ICMSA fumed at the prospect of a law allowing for a right to roam. They said they would only accept some regulation where people would have to apply for permission to access lands.

Coming from a rural background I understand and sympathise with the concerns of farmers and landowners. I don't think the real issue here is money. I think farmers and rural dwellers have concerns about damage and the impact of people being given uncontrolled access to their property.

I know of cases where people have left gates open, have frightened animals, have created gaps in fences etc. Despite the fact that many urban dwellers have withdrawn behind their electronic gates and buzzers, they seem to think that farmers and rural dwellers should throw their gates open to all!!
Go to Germany and see what it's like there. You can walk from Austria in the south to Denmark in the north without crossing a road! There are dedicated roads for cyclists mainly but walkers can use em too. You pass cows and livestock on your way to Denmark and they are all fenced in by single electric wire fences. The paths thread through or across farmers properties which they themselves are obviously allowed to use and sometimes you have to avoid a tractor. Paths go nowhere near houses or at least not more near than a boreen here will go to a house. You pass between fields of corn and all - you could very easily just pick some crops and eat them on your way but you feel bad if you do.

I camped beside fields and in them often and it was so open and just incredible and I was sold immediately. Great for families, children. You farmers would be doing the world a huge huge favour to society in general if you did this. I think our society would improve in non-money terms within 5 years by an immesurable degree.

Go to Germany I tell you. Find the 'Fahrradwege'. Talk to the local farmers in Bavaria. You will be amazed.
 


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