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Uprising in Thailand


disenchanted

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Mar 29, 2008
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FINALLY!

State TV station stormed and taken off air. All main ministries stormed by protestors. All major roads blocked by protestors. Airports in Phuket and Hat Yai also to be blocked.

The People's Alliance for Democracy intends to force the thug/gangster/puppet government out of power once and for all.

Samak, the current PM, was complicit in a crack down on protesters back in the '70s in which students were beaten to death, hung from trees, beaten some more... and in some cases set alight. Hundreds disappeared and some were hung from one of Bangkok's monuments as a reminder not to step out of line... and now he's PM?

I've attended a PAD rally before... great people! A huge grass-roots movement seeking a people's democracy over the gangster/thug "democracy" they have now.

They've also stormed the headquarters of Bangkok Metropolitan Police!

PAD

Chaiyo! Chaiyo! Chaiyo!

Samak! Awk Bpai!

See The Nation for updates.
 

disenchanted

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From the Bangkok Post
After calling on People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) supporters from all over the country to converge for today's "final war" protest march against the Samak Sundaravej administration, PAD core leader Sondhi Limthongkul talked to the Bangkok Post's Nattaya Chetchotiros.

What is the PAD strategy for the rally?

It will be the day we change Thailand through the people. Our position today is much clearer than over the past 90 days.

If we don't do it, the monarchy might collapse. That's because soldiers and civil servants haven't earnestly protected the country, the nation and the monarchy.

Will water and electricity supplies to state agencies be cut off?

That's a statement by state enterprise labour union leaders. It has nothing to do with the PAD. We won't do anything that could affect people or lead to violence.

What did you mean when you said the rally is a battle against old politics?

It's because people in Thai society were misled into believing that just having an election is a sign of democracy. We can see that nothing has improved after 60 years of elections.

Elections today are an investment. A sane person would not invest 30 million baht to earn a monthly salary of a bit more than 100,000 baht. And no insane person makes such an investment, only investors. MPs today are hired voters. The claim that they are elected representatives is wrong.
How will the "final war" be different from PAD's previous wars?

Watch out. The rally [today] won't be an ordinary rally. We'll do everything to halt all the state's administrative mechanisms.

We'll block the roads from southern, northern and northeastern regions, but we'll let our supporters arrive in the city first. We'll block the roads after midday. At noon, we'll close Phuket airport and Hat Yai airport. We will post this plan online [on the Manager website] at 10am.

We'll seize all the ministries on Ratchadamnoen avenue. We'll ask civil servants to leave their offices.

The government won't be able to function any longer. It's a power vacuum. Samak knows that he will soon have to step down.


:lol:
 

FutureTaoiseach

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The police have regained control of the situation. Bangkok opposed Thaksin too so this is just more of the same. The PPP party is supported in the rural majority.
 

disenchanted

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Correction, future taoiseach, their voter base is the poor, rural north & northeast, but they can't muster up any support whatsoever without PAYING their "supporters" to turn out.

So, when it comes down to it... the PPP has no real grass roots support.

They themselves are simply hired voters, as Sonthi put it.

Samak will have to step down eventually... he can't withstand this pressure.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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disenchanted said:
Correction, future taoiseach, their voter base is the poor, rural north & northeast, but they can't muster up any support whatsoever without PAYING their "supporters" to turn out.

So, when it comes down to it... the PPP has no real grass roots support.

They themselves are simply hired voters, as Sonthi put it.

Samak will have to step down eventually... he can't withstand this pressure.
They won the elections even those held under a military junta. The people of Bangkok need to accept defeat gracefully.
 

disenchanted

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Ahh.. OK. So a party buys its way into power... and democrats have to accept defeat gracefully?

Now I get it.

Well damn it PAD! Go home!

;)
 

disenchanted

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Update: Anti-government protesters pushed their way into the compound of the Government House on Tuesday afternoon.

Police watched helplessly as hundreds of protesters stormed into the Government House on Tuesday.

Some protesters climbed over the side gates to enter the Government House while some others used bolt cutters to break the chains tied at the gates at 1.50pm.

Police who was deployed at the Government House watched helplessly as the unarmed protesters moved into the compound.

The protesters stopped once they entered the compound at Government House and sat on the lawns. They were seen waving flags and banners. They showed no attempts to enter the buildings.

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej and his cabinet members had moved their meeting venue to the Supreme Command headquarter on Chang Wattana Road.

It was the first time that a large of protesters managed to get onto the Government House grounds.
 

code twinkle

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disenchanted said:
Ahh.. OK. So a party buys its way into power... and democrats have to accept defeat gracefully?

Now I get it.

Well damn it PAD! Go home!

;)
From the BBC:

"Despite the name, the People's Alliance for Democracy is actually campaigning for an end to democracy, arguing that in Thailand Western-style elections have only led to corrupt and ineffective governments.

Instead, it wants a largely appointed parliament, and a legalised role for the military as a kind of referee in Thai politics... "
 

FutureTaoiseach

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The govt should call in the army. Oh wait a minute.... :?
 

disenchanted

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Code Twinkle, having lived in the country for several years, I have to agree with the PAD.

The situation as it stands right now is basically this:
The poor in Isaan (the north east) make up the majority of the electorate. They have received nothing from Thailand's democratic government. Poverty is extreme in many areas (which forces many of the local girls into prostitution), unemployment is high and levels of education are very low.

When election time comes around, the PPP, or whichever other name the Mafia Capitalists choose (Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai), simply hands out a few dollars for each vote, gains power and thus access to the country's tax revenue. Mega projects, rife with corruption usually follow, with all of the pigs feasting at the trough. The new airport was a good example.

What you end up with is thug Capitalist rule which has been disasterous for the country.

Under Thaksin, countless thousands of innocent people were killed extra judicially as part of his war on drugs, environmental activists were murdered with impunity... the media, telecoms... everything was in the hands of the ruling elite.

The French Revolution never happened in Thailand.

Western style representative democracy does not work in Thailand, pure and simple.
 

goosebump

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disenchanted said:
Code Twinkle, having lived in the country for several years, I have to agree with the PAD.

The situation as it stands right now is basically this:
The poor in Isaan (the north east) make up the majority of the electorate. They have received nothing from Thailand's democratic government. Poverty is extreme in many areas (which forces many of the local girls into prostitution), unemployment is high and levels of education are very low.

When election time comes around, the PPP, or whichever other name the Mafia Capitalists choose (Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai), simply hands out a few dollars for each vote, gains power and thus access to the country's tax revenue. Mega projects, rife with corruption usually follow, with all of the pigs feasting at the trough. The new airport was a good example.

What you end up with is thug Capitalist rule which has been disasterous for the country.

Under Thaksin, countless thousands of innocent people were killed extra judicially as part of his war on drugs, environmental activists were murdered with impunity... the media, telecoms... everything was in the hands of the ruling elite.

The French Revolution never happened in Thailand.

Western style representative democracy does not work in Thailand, pure and simple.

Is buying votes with a handful of dollars any different from buying them with tax breaks, or new football gear for you local Under 14 team?

Doesn't democracy include the right to sell your vote?
 

disenchanted

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For those of you who don't really know much about Thai politics, and about Prime Minister Samak in particular, the article at the link below is worth a read. Warning: disturbing images.

October '76 Student Uprising

The events took place when Samak was Minister of the Interior.. and he is widely believed to have played a major role in organizing and executing the crackdown.
 

code twinkle

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disenchanted said:
Code Twinkle, having lived in the country for several years, I have to agree with the PAD.

The situation as it stands right now is basically this:
The poor in Isaan (the north east) make up the majority of the electorate. They have received nothing from Thailand's democratic government. Poverty is extreme in many areas (which forces many of the local girls into prostitution), unemployment is high and levels of education are very low.

When election time comes around, the PPP, or whichever other name the Mafia Capitalists choose (Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai), simply hands out a few dollars for each vote, gains power and thus access to the country's tax revenue. Mega projects, rife with corruption usually follow, with all of the pigs feasting at the trough. The new airport was a good example.

What you end up with is thug Capitalist rule which has been disasterous for the country.

Under Thaksin, countless thousands of innocent people were killed extra judicially as part of his war on drugs, environmental activists were murdered with impunity... the media, telecoms... everything was in the hands of the ruling elite.

The French Revolution never happened in Thailand.

Western style representative democracy does not work in Thailand, pure and simple.
Well these guys seem to be part of a popular movement so I'm not going to argue with them expressing their political wishes but to pretend that all of the abuses that happened under Thaksin won't happen under a different more authoritarian system doesn't make any logical sense to me. The reason Thaksin did x y and z was, pure and simple, because nobody could hold him accountable eg. prevent him - if you get another regime in that is equally unaccountable eg. uncontrollable by the people, the exact same abuses will occur. it's lunacy to expect otherwise...
 

disenchanted

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The idea is to come up with a system under which leaders ARE held accountable. A system with proper checks and balances in which people's allegiances can't simply be bought.

The key thing is to ensure that the problems resulting from a single pary buying a landslide victory.... and thus becoming completely unaccountable, don't happen again.

Thailand is not Western Europe. They actually do need a system that works best for their people.

The existing system, where murdering, cheating, evil bastard thugs buy their way into power every time there is an election.... and run the country soley to the benefit of themselves and their cronies... is not working.
 

ivnryn

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goosebump said:
Is buying votes with a handful of dollars any different from buying them with tax breaks, or new football gear for you local Under 14 team?

Doesn't democracy include the right to sell your vote?
It depends on how it is bought. The secret ballot is designed to prevent direct vote buying. In fact, direct vote buying is anti-democratic. Buying by promising to do something is OK as it isn't for a single person.

Was their method of operation to hand out money and hope the 'good-will' generated would increase their vote totals?

For example, handing money to people as they enter the polling station, even if the secret ballot is protected, wouldn't be appropriate. This is especially true if there is low confidence in the effectiveness of the secret ballot. This is why we have rules about having to stay a minimum distance from the polling stations unless you are going to vote.

In the US, a similar thing can happen where homeless people are given money and driven to the polling stations, they technically could vote for anyone.
 

code twinkle

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disenchanted said:
The idea is to come up with a system under which leaders ARE held accountable. A system with proper checks and balances in which people's allegiances can't simply be bought.
I do hear what you're saying but what you're describing there is democracy plain and simple. The only reason a democratic system is so structured is because it is the only effective way to avoid institutional abuse. What they need is a better, stronger democratic system, not a "we the people will appoint you if you do what we say oh shit you're not holding to your side of the promise and you;ve got guns oops" type of system... :?
 

code twinkle

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disenchanted said:
I agree digout day....

We could start with storming the offices of RTE.
might be tough with all the tumbleweed you'd have to hack through first...
 

Respvblica

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code twinkle said:
disenchanted said:
The idea is to come up with a system under which leaders ARE held accountable. A system with proper checks and balances in which people's allegiances can't simply be bought.
I do hear what you're saying but what you're describing there is democracy plain and simple. The only reason a democratic system is so structured is because it is the only effective way to avoid institutional abuse. What they need is a better, stronger democratic system, not a "we the people will appoint you if you do what we say oh * siúcra * you're not holding to your side of the promise and you;ve got guns oops" type of system... :?
I agree. Democracy is needed as it is the only way of holding the leaders accountable to all the people. If they are having a problem with the executive then perhaps they should review the powers of that executive - perhaps weaken them or place better checks and balances. Getting rid of democracy will only make things worse. The appointees will only be accountable to those that appointed them -some military elite - who become the real usurpers of sovereignty.
Now the question becomes - how do you become part of the military elite and who are they accountable to?
Meanwhile the people are effectively living under servitude. In my opinion revolution in this case is justified.
 
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