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Us and them. Relationships for a United Ireland


Malbekh

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Apr 30, 2009
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Good evening. This article could be in the NI section, although it's really about a United Ireland. It's about NI attitudes to us and ROI attitudes to them. Hence, us and them. I'd like to put it in the NI forum, but it would appear that NI threads are banned from general viewing, locked up in a cabinet, no doubt in some downstairs WC with a 'beware of the leopard' sign to provide further protection.

I find this slightly disheartening. I recall there have been many issues in the past where the site was inundated with hate threads based in the NI forum, something the site doesn't need. Nonetheless, is there not a possibility that we could try to return the forum to the front page on a trial basis?

Perhaps this thread may be a template for things to come. In a previous thread on much the same subject I did ask the posters to treat the thread with just a little bit of respect, and you know what, that's exactly what happened. The advantage I have is that I can happily be an idiot on these kinds of threads, asking naive questions (being naive) and not get trolled to death.

Eh? Oh yeah, the actual thread. My thesis is that we have had three ages in relationships in the modern era, as outlines below.

In the first age that comprises the 70's, 80's and early 90's we had abject negativity on both sides of the border. I would suggest that the majority of residents in ROI wanted nothing to do with NI on the basis of the threat of violence coming down south. Which reminds me, with very notable exceptions, why was there no loyalist campaign down south? Maybe for another thread....

Similarly, for NI, the vast majority wanted nothing to do with ROI. This also include a sizeable minority of Catholics whose attitude was based not only that ROI was an economic backwater, but that all the joys of free sex, contraception and other niceties were banned in the south.

In the second age in the late 90's and 00's we had a bit of a sea change. This was in the middle of house-flipping boom. NI looked upon ROI as being some sort of weird dream where the ugly bastard love child becomes a prince, and we looked upon NI with some sort of happy benevolence now that the Troubles appeared to over. Will we ever see the likes of those times again?

Now we are in the third age. Interestingly enough, the smug grins north of the border as our economy imploded, have been replaced with frowns as the moron developers who led our property bubble were as active north of the border as they were south. In short, both countries appear to be in the you-know-what only being kept afloat by massive capital injections by our supposed benefactors.

So in 2013 where is the relationship now? Leaving aside the political and religious differences, a big ask I know, we find that economically, we are as welded to hip more than ever. I'm up in Belfast every week and find NI a great place to do business in. My opinion is that the economic connections are far and above the most important element in our relationships. But as of now, culturally, it suits the politicians to allow things to continue as they are with no great plan for any further integration.
 

james5001

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I've asked btb to have a conversation with me about past events. He didn't reply.
 

fergus34

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She's lovely personality
Gruben a tree, My daughter set a summer vacation with kids, she's active sport girl, Voleyball competitions in EU, so bring some interest.

Eva not a bookeeper.. Ah, that's i really regret's Frau mutter like her..
 

former wesleyan

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If Ireland is united, won't Dublin play the part of London and the Home Counties and the north play the part of Geordieland or ey up Yorkshiremen? I can't see this as an improvement.
 

james5001

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If Ireland is united, won't Dublin play the part of London and the Home Counties and the north play the part of Geordieland or ey up Yorkshiremen? I can't see this as an improvement.
No. Just no. When Ireland becomes united we don't have to take on the characteristics of the previous setup.
 

fergus34

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She's lovely personality
Well for economy, Should the Fine Gael make a foreign trip to Ukrain bring some managments
bussiness plans, the strategic branch of interest.

Can Fine Gael attach bussiness plans now! to the society missions.

Sie Sind do plans...
what's key interest..

How move the people to office and where's ideas.

Who are consultants, who responsible for taxes, what outter positions
 

devoutcapitalist

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Feb 26, 2013
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16,607
thanks to fianna fail destroying ireland there won't be a united ireland for decades to come. As regards northerners a lot of people in the 26 counties would stereotype northerners as been stingy with money, not actually true given the fact that the 6 counties had a property bubble and subsequent crash. Many unionists would regard people in the south as culturally tolerant of corruption with a very lax stance towards the rule of law.
 

drummed

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Oct 22, 2010
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Well for economy, Should the Fine Gael make a foreign trip to Ukrain bring some managments
bussiness plans, the strategic branch of interest.

Can Fine Gael attach bussiness plans now! to the society missions.

Sie Sind do plans...
what's key interest..

How move the people to office and where's ideas.

Who are consultants, who responsible for taxes, what outter positions
What the feck are you on about????????????:mad: Go away please.


Put simply until the population of the north decide jointly and peacefully what they wish to do nothing will happen. And so it should be.
I see no real prospect of this anytime soon. If a day comes when the island can be unified with overwhelming public support so be it. Otherwise some sort of 51% majority would be a disaster and we would merely incorporate a nasty sectraian dispute into out country.
The Brits caused the mess, let them sort it out. We'll take it back when its fixed.
 

Dublin 4

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Feb 6, 2011
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Opinion Polls in the South are always or at least nearly always Pro UI.

I'd guess it's 30 years away.

Would be closer if SF did us all a favour & disbanded.

Ukip & their English Home Rule Parliament effort could expedite affairs.

Likewise Salmond in Scotland, though I do enjoy watching Unionists being sliced to death by a thousand cuts :p
 

Ren84

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If Ireland is united, won't Dublin play the part of London and the Home Counties and the north play the part of Geordieland or ey up Yorkshiremen? I can't see this as an improvement.
You're wrong, as usual. There will be productive parts like Belfast and Derry contributing to central government, conversely there will be other sh!tholes like Larne and Lisburn being a drain. No different from Dublin and Cork being contributors and Connemara and Limerick sucking money out of the Treasury. Unless you advocate we ditch the West of Ireland?
 

drummed

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Opinion Polls in the South are always or at least nearly always Pro UI.

I'd guess it's 30 years away.

Would be closer if SF did us all a favour & disbanded.

Ukip & their English Home Rule Parliament effort could expedite affairs.

Likewise Salmond in Scotland, though I do enjoy watching Unionists being sliced to death by a thousand cuts :p
Dunno, if the UKIP reactionary bunnies manage to get the UK out of the EU it'll be a bit of an issue? The gap between north and south could widen quickly if the Brits start paddling their own canoe. (To god knows where, they certainly don't).
 

Ren84

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Well for economy, Should the Fine Gael make a foreign trip to Ukrain bring some managments
bussiness plans, the strategic branch of interest.

Can Fine Gael attach bussiness plans now! to the society missions.

Sie Sind do plans...
what's key interest..

How move the people to office and where's ideas.

Who are consultants, who responsible for taxes, what outter positions
What in the name of Christ are you blithering on about?!? I tried to ignore your frankly nonsensical post but this takes the biscuit. Clown.
 

drummed

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Opinion polls in the south are fairly useless. 'Do you like xmas?' sort of polls always are.
'Do you want a UI and or you willing to pay for it?' would be realistic. People want al sorts of stuff in opinion polls.
 

Ren84

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Dunno, if the UKIP reactionary bunnies manage to get the UK out of the EU it'll be a bit of an issue? The gap between north and south could widen quickly if the Brits start paddling their own canoe. (To god knows where, they certainly don't).
Don't want to derail the thread and discuss Ukip but I can't see them gaining much traction long term. They're very much a single issue party. If the UK leaves Europe, Ukip disappears. If the Brits vote to stay Ukip is fecked as it can longer claim a legitimate right to campaign for British "independence". TBH I don't see the Brits being foolish enough to leave if faced with an in/out referendum.
 

Ren84

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Opinion polls in the south are fairly useless. 'Do you like xmas?' sort of polls always are.
'Do you want a UI and or you willing to pay for it?' would be realistic. People want al sorts of stuff in opinion polls.
If we had a vote tomorrow on national unity the Irish people would overwhelmingly endorse it, no doubt about it. A UI may not be a burning topic for most people, but it's still there in the back of people's minds. Faced with the question "Do you want the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland to unify?" I would hazard 90%+ would say yes.
 

drummed

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Don't want to derail the thread and discuss Ukip but I can't see them gaining much traction long term. They're very much a single issue party. If the UK leaves Europe, Ukip disappears. If the Brits vote to stay Ukip is fecked as it can longer claim a legitimate right to campaign for British "independence". TBH I don't see the Brits being foolish enough to leave if faced with an in/out referendum.
In truth me either as if nothing else big business will wade into the campaign and shout loudest. Still, you'd never know. People vote for funny things sometimes. My problem is i can't understand the ones who want a UI when 51% of the population favour it. That leaves 49% of our new citizens hostile to us from the start. That simply is not viable in any way, political, social, economic, etc. You would have to convince way more people than 51% and i don't realisticly see this happening anytime soon.
 

devoutcapitalist

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If we had a vote tomorrow on national unity the Irish people would overwhelmingly endorse it, no doubt about it. A UI may not be a burning topic for most people, but it's still there in the back of people's minds. Faced with the question "Do you want the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland to unify?" I would hazard 90%+ would say yes.
would people be willing to pay substantially more tax to pay for a united ireland? I reckon a united ireland is at least 40 years away unless there is a dramatic improvement in the economy.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Oct 12, 2009
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The Good Friday Agreement and the 1998 Northern Ireland Act give the power to call a border poll to the secretary of state who "may" call a border poll at any time. However, if there's clear evidence that a majority of people in Northern Ireland want to leave the UK and join a united Ireland, then the agreement places a duty on the secretary of state who "shall" arrange a referendum.

Not much sign of that-
The Kingdom will remain United
 

drummed

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would people be willing to pay substantially more tax to pay for a united ireland? I reckon a united ireland is at least 40 years away unless there is a dramatic improvement in the economy.
Unless something dramatic changes. Take the current abortion fiasco. We're always told this image of us as a Catholic Church dominated society alienates the prods up north. Yet given a chance to dispel that image we repeatedly fail to do so. The arch conservatie Catholics who make up so much of FF and FG can't have it both ways. If we want a UI we have to make compromises and few are willing to actually do so. I, for example am not willing to pay for a UI. Simple, if it costs me tax i'm out.
 

devoutcapitalist

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Unless something dramatic changes. Take the current abortion fiasco. We're always told this image of us as a Catholic Church dominated society alienates the prods up north. Yet given a chance to dispel that image we repeatedly fail to do so. The arch conservatie Catholics who make up so much of FF and FG can't have it both ways. If we want a UI we have to make compromises and few are willing to actually do so. I, for example am not willing to pay for a UI. Simple, if it costs me tax i'm out.
a lot of unionists up north are strongly opposed to abortion also especially the dup and the uup. As regards a united ireland the norths public sector would have to be dramatically scaled back as well.
 
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