US announce direct Israel-Palestinian negotiations.

Sync

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BBC's front page is stating that the US State Department is expected to announce details of conditions for direct Israel-Palestinian talks within the hour.

Will be interesting how they think these will work, if they'll be 2 sets of meetings between Israel and the different Palestinian factions. This morning the Obama administration were certainly seeming more interested:

We are working through the details of what is necessary to get the parties into direct negotiations," P.J. Crowley, the State Department spokesman, said Wednesday, referring to the "Quartet," the grouping of the United States, Russia, the United Nations and the European Union that guides the Middle East peace process. "We fully expect that we’re going to get there. We just, at this moment, are still working directly and trying to move the parties to that point where they’re prepared to enter into direct negotiations."

Crowley said the Quartet was still considering releasing a statement prior to the talks; Palestinians want such a statement as a means of committing Israel to discussing final status issues, including borders, Jerusalem and refugees. Israel's government has resisted such outlines.
 


Rocky

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I don't see anything about this on the BBC website now, which is odd.

I'd need to see more before I can comment. However anything that would break the deadlock would be great.
 

Sync

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It's the first item in the tracker. It's interesting because the Palestinians were (very reasonably) demanding a statement from the quartet yesterday as to what was going to be discussed, and Israel yesterday were flat out saying no. If there isn't a statement, there isn't much point, because the become talks about talks i.e meaningless.
 

Rocky

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It's the first item in the tracker. It's interesting because the Palestinians were (very reasonably) demanding a statement from the quartet yesterday as to what was going to be discussed, and Israel yesterday were flat out saying no. If there isn't a statement, there isn't much point, because the become talks about talks i.e meaningless.
See it now. I was looking for an actual article.
 

Sync

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BBC News - Home Genuinely not being funny. I'm using the international version, and the Latest Ticker Bar has the title header. There's more to come shortly apparently.
 

Oldboy

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Remember folks, no preconditions, keep on chanting that mantra. It's the Likud way.
 

Rocky

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BBC News - Home Genuinely not being funny. I'm using the international version, and the Latest Ticker Bar has the title header. There's more to come shortly apparently.
Yeah I saw it and It's all good.:)

There's even an article there now, but it doesn't say much more.
BBC News - US 'ready' to unveil Middle East talks plan

I'd hope whatever it is, has already bascially been agreed by the two sides or is something very orginial, otherwise I think it might not make any difference.
 

Sync

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No **** statement of the day:

"There are serious disagreements on many of the big issues."
 

Thac0man

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Have to hope for a complete freeze on East Jerusalem and Settlement building - anything less will be difficult for Abbas to swallow and keep face. Worst case scenario none of those things are on the books and/or Isreal manages to get its concessions on the Gaza blockade included instead or counted into the terms.
 

onlyasking

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Have to hope for a complete freeze on East Jerusalem and Settlement building - anything less will be difficult for Abbas to swallow and keep face.
Abbas, like all Palestinians, is well used to swallowing the bitterest of pills and far from merely being unable to "keep face" will endure ongoing humiliation until the day he dies. There will be no "freeze" on anything Israel wants. Come back next year and tell me I'm wrong. Or the year after, or five years hence.

Worst case scenario none of those things are on the books and/or Isreal manages to get its concessions on the Gaza blockade included instead or counted into the terms.
The worst case scenario is the one that's been unfolding for over 60 years, and the one that will come to pass: Israel will continue to strangle Palestine until there's nothing left but a few square miles of walled-off Gaza. Israel will never cease its ongoing conquest of the West Bank, brick by brick, acre by acre, until the Israel-Palestine conflict has been solved by the extinction of Palestine.

The US, along with the UK and the rest of the EU, will simply never stand up to the international might of the Zionist movement. Zionists and their supporters are prominent in the administrations of all US and UK governments, and wield great influence within the corridors of power in the EU.

One day, there'll be no more Arab land within the borders Israel controls. Then, the international 'community' will talk of the 'tragedy of the Palestinians', despite having facilitated their utter subjugation and dispossession.

Negotiations under the umbrella of the international 'community' are merely a smokescreen behind which the lands of non-Jews continue to 'fall' into Jewish settlers' hands. All Israeli involvement in 'negotiations' is merely part of the overall strategy of playing for time while building 'facts on the ground' until Greater Israel comes to represent the ultimate 'fact on the ground' in the middle-east.

When are people going to open their eyes to the realities of the middle-east.
 

Aristodemus

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Borders and countries change all the time. No-one even knew Palestine existed until a couple of civil servants invented it. The arabs should just get on with it. Next thing there will be people on here lamenting the demise of Prussia which occurred around the same time.
 

Rocky

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Have to hope for a complete freeze on East Jerusalem and Settlement building - anything less will be difficult for Abbas to swallow and keep face. Worst case scenario none of those things are on the books and/or Isreal manages to get its concessions on the Gaza blockade included instead or counted into the terms.
If you fudge the issue of building in East Jerusalem I think you could have something. I can't see Israel accepting a building freeze as it's a massive back down for Israel and it's a massive back down for Abbas if he accepts anything other then a freeze. Maybe some way in which Israel does freeze building without actually saying it.

I don't think it will be difficult to get Israel to extent it's freeze of settlement building outside of Jerusalem.
 

onlyasking

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Borders and countries change all the time. No-one even knew Palestine existed until a couple of civil servants invented it. The arabs should just get on with it. Next thing there will be people on here lamenting the demise of Prussia which occurred around the same time.
How about wiping Israel off the map? That'd be merely as lamentable as Prussia or Palestine meeting their demise, wouldn't it? Eh?
 

Thac0man

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If you fudge the issue of building in East Jerusalem I think you could have something. I can't see Israel accepting a building freeze as it's a massive back down for Israel and it's a massive back down for Abbas if he accepts anything other then a freeze. Maybe some way in which Israel does freeze building without actually saying it.

I don't think it will be difficult to get Israel to extent it's freeze of settlement building outside of Jerusalem.
If there is no freeze on East Jerusalem building, no matter what the outcome of talks, East Jeruslaem will irrevocably be in Israeli settler hands. The Arab league dropped their demand for pre-conditions, but where does that leave Abbas? There are indications that Israeli activity in East Jerusalem has slowed, perhaps a concession to US pressure. But the progress of Isreali settlement encroachment will depend then on how quickly (or slowly) talks are concluded. Abbas is between a rock and a hard place on this one unless there is a total freeze on settlement activity.

My main concern though is the banner that useful idiots have been flocking too recently; the 'One State Solution'. Sounds great, but a) decades to impliment and more importantly b) is a solution currently being championed by hardcore Zionists in the Israeli coalition government. While morons in the west are drooling over this idea, seeing a Palistinian majority in the offing, the hard core Zionists are also onboard, seeing it as a solution that puts an end to the occupation and settlements decades away. I suspect that Likud are cultivating the single state solution as an ultimate fall back, buying years to continue their current policies while negotiations take place and useful idiots celebrate a false victory. And in the end it might only be a stalking horse for the forced implimentation of a two state solution at the right time that sees all Palestinians, refguees and isreali ones, settled in a seperate and reduced Palestinian homeland. Likud are many things, but they are not as stupid as many of their more reactionary critics.

In progress towards any 'single state' solution settlements would stay in preparation for agreement. And at any point in what would be protracted talks as many hot heads on the Palestinian side as on the Israeli one could trigger a breakdown and an imposed two state solution, which would suit Likud down to the ground.
 
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Oldboy

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Borders and countries change all the time. No-one even knew Palestine existed until a couple of civil servants invented it. The arabs should just get on with it. Next thing there will be people on here lamenting the demise of Prussia which occurred around the same time.
And all the previous Arab residents of Haifa, Lod , Jaffa etc were made up by civil servants too I'd bet as well, remarkable work. We all know Palestine wasn't a political entity, ever heard of the Ottoman Empire genius? Jesus wept.
 

Sync

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Good god what a waste of time. I mean...Who could possibly think this will work. Unless Abbas wants to travel over for Christmas presents, it's utterly pointless. No pre-conditions at all. Israel get to continue building their illegal settlements during the negotiations. A ludicrous, arbitrary and unachievable deadline combined with no actual plan or agenda just "Let's talk" really does mark this out for doom. Pathetic stuff from the US.

BBC News - Israel and the Palestinians to resume direct talks

Israel and the Palestinians have agreed to resume direct negotiations for the first time in 20 months, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has said.

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas have been invited to Washington on 2 September to start the talks.

They have agreed to place a one-year time limit on the direct negotiations.
 

dresden8

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Good god what a waste of time. I mean...Who could possibly think this will work. Unless Abbas wants to travel over for Christmas presents, it's utterly pointless. No pre-conditions at all. Israel get to continue building their illegal settlements during the negotiations. A ludicrous, arbitrary and unachievable deadline combined with no actual plan or agenda just "Let's talk" really does mark this out for doom. Pathetic stuff from the US.

BBC News - Israel and the Palestinians to resume direct talks
Didn't you get the memo, it's "Change we can believe in", "Hope" and all that same ould ********************e.

Obama gets his money from the same people that Bush did.

Anybody who believes otherwise is an idiot.
 

Rocky

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Good god what a waste of time. I mean...Who could possibly think this will work. Unless Abbas wants to travel over for Christmas presents, it's utterly pointless. No pre-conditions at all. Israel get to continue building their illegal settlements during the negotiations. A ludicrous, arbitrary and unachievable deadline combined with no actual plan or agenda just "Let's talk" really does mark this out for doom. Pathetic stuff from the US.

BBC News - Israel and the Palestinians to resume direct talks
It's better then nothing.

All the US or anyone else can really do is try and at many times it looked hopeless in Northern Ireland, but people kept trying and in the end they did find peace. The same could be true here. What we do know, is that if no one does anything then there will never be peace.
 

TheMushyStuff

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I have hopes but not that High hope from Obama.
 

stoichkov

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obama's appointment of rahm emanuel as his right-hand man was an early and glaring sign that he was never going to be the sort of president who gave much of a damn about the palestinians.

nothing much is going to change in the occupied territories. if israel was genuinely interested in a peaceful equitable solution, it would have stopped building illegal settlements all over the place years ago.

all it wants is extra land.
 


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