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US Atheists file Complaint over Currency. In God we Don't Trust.


EvotingMachine0197

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This is going to be interesting, maybe. "In God We Trust" has been present on US paper currency since 1957 and is also the US National Motto since 1956.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation, along with 19 other plaintiffs, is suing the U.S. Treasury for stamping "In God We Trust" on currency. Honorary FFRF board member Mike Newdow is acting as legal counsel in the suit, which was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York on Feb. 1.

The complaint alleges that the religious verbiage is proselytizing, discriminatory and a per se establishment of monotheism in violation of the Establishment Clause.
Nonbelievers seek to take God off currency - Freedom From Religion Foundation

The complaint document itself, while I've only spent 10 minutes scanning it, looks like a very well researched submission with plenty of solid argument by the plaintiffs.

http://ffrf.org/uploads/legal/IGWTComplaint.pdf

The complaint is summarised on page 78 of the document: That the declaration of "In God we trust" on the currency violates the Establishment Clause, the Free Exercise Clause and the Religious Freedom Act. They are seeking to permanently enjoin the defendants from minting/printing currency carrying this motto.

Incidentally, this is not the first time that the FFRF have taken issue with the motto.

Foxnews.com 2009 said:
The nation's largest group of atheists and agnostics filed a lawsuit Tuesday seeking to block an architect from engraving "In God We Trust" and the Pledge of Allegiance at the Capitol Visitor Center in Washington.

The Madison-based Freedom From Religion Foundation's lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in western Wisconsin, claims the taxpayer-funded engravings would be an unconstitutional endorsement of religion.
Read more: Group Seeks to Block 'In God We Trust' Engraving | Fox News

I wish them well. Perhaps this will encourage us to fix the preamble in our own constitution.
 

Glenshane4

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This is going to be interesting, maybe. "In God We Trust" has been present on US paper currency since 1957 and is also the US National Motto since 1956.


Nonbelievers seek to take God off currency - Freedom From Religion Foundation

The complaint document itself, while I've only spent 10 minutes scanning it, looks like a very well researched submission with plenty of solid argument by the plaintiffs.

http://ffrf.org/uploads/legal/IGWTComplaint.pdf

The complaint is summarised on page 78 of the document: That the declaration of "In God we trust" on the currency violates the Establishment Clause, the Free Exercise Clause and the Religious Freedom Act. They are seeking to permanently enjoin the defendants from minting/printing currency carrying this motto.

Incidentally, this is not the first time that the FFRF have taken issue with the motto.



Read more: Group Seeks to Block 'In God We Trust' Engraving | Fox News

I wish them well. Perhaps this will encourage us to fix the preamble in our own constitution.
They have a point. There are other obvious targets - all those oaths which people in the USA have to take in order to take up public office.
 

seabhcan

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They have a point. There are other obvious targets - all those oaths which people in the USA have to take in order to take up public office.
I believe those are merely custom, rather than law. You can swear an oath on a dictionary if you wish.

How about here? I know Atheists are forbidden to be judges in Ireland, but can they legally give sworn evidence in court as a witness?
 

LamportsEdge

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Yes I've always wondered about how various public xtian declarations can apparently wander about the symbolic landscape of that secular Republic ... 'In God We Trust' on the money, presidential 'Prayer Breakfasts' with xtian church leaders only and that kind of thing.

I didn't know that it was only in 1957 that that phrase appeared on the money though although it fits with the reactive bunkerdigging in America against the 'red menace' which of course was in fact a secular state.

If anything it is an anarchronism and at worst unconstitutional.
 

LamportsEdge

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Pretty childish though.
Symbols are important in any society. Look at the horror, the horror, among the frantics of Ireland when anyone dares suggest we could do with without the Mad Bongs every evening on RTE.
 
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I believe those are merely custom, rather than law. You can swear an oath on a dictionary if you wish.

How about here? I know Atheists are forbidden to be judges in Ireland, but can they legally give sworn evidence in court as a witness?
They are?

Can you show that?
 

Cato

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seabhcan

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They are?

Can you show that?
The level of ignorance of Irish law on this site is astounding. I refer you to the constitution, where it states:

5. 1° Every person appointed a judge under this Constitution shall make and subscribe the following declaration:

"In the presence of Almighty God I, , do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that I will duly and faithfully and to the best of my knowledge and power execute the office of Chief Justice (or as the case may be) without fear or favour, affection or ill-will towards any man, and that I will uphold the Constitution and the laws. May God direct and sustain me."
 

ruserious

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The level of ignorance of Irish law on this site is astounding. I refer you to the constitution, where it states:

An atheist can just make an empty oath. This State was founded on such principles.
 

LamportsEdge

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There is a lot of assumed stupidity played out on such threads. It is a technique.
 

LamportsEdge

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An atheist can just make an empty oath. This State was founded on such principles.
Why should an atheist leave themselves open to accusations of being a liar by taking an 'empty' oath? I'm aware this is par for the course with the frantic catholic mindset which actually condones lying if it furthers the cause of catholicism but believe it or not some people don't actually like the demand that they lie in public.
 
D

Dylan2010

What will they change it to, "in the Fed we trust" or "in the military drones we trust"
 

borntorum

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Sure. A dishonest Atheist can be a judge, but not an honest Atheist. Its a "don't ask don't tell" policy.
I had experience of one judge who told me that he didn't believe "in any of that auld religious nonsense"; I was tempted to ask him about his oath but my innate politeness won out ;)
 

Cato

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Sure. A dishonest Atheist can be a judge, but not an honest Atheist. Its a "don't ask don't tell" policy.
It also depends on what one understands the word 'god' to refer to. A pantheistic understanding of the word, defined in a particularly tight way, would probably pose little difficulties to most atheists.
 

LamportsEdge

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What will they change it to, "in the Fed we trust" or "in the military drones we trust"
Oh- well. Lots of options there. 'In the Constitution We Trust' sounds quite good providing there's any bit of it left operable by corporate america... 'In Freedom We Trust' ... I can think of lots ... 'In Union We Trust' ... the list is endless.
 
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Why should an atheist leave themselves open to accusations of being a liar by taking an 'empty' oath? I'm aware this is par for the course with the frantic catholic mindset which actually condones lying if it furthers the cause of catholicism but believe it or not some people don't actually like the demand that they lie in public.
Where is the lie in the oath?
 

Cato

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What will they change it to, "in the Fed we trust" or "in the military drones we trust"
The phrase was only added in the 20th century. They can go back, if they wish, to the status quo ante and simply have nothing.
 
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