US police pay 13 men to frame girlfriends for trafficking.

gleeful

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This is how policing works in the US. They arrest you, and threaten you with decades in jail unless you help frame others. In one recent case in 103 people were swept up and arrested for 'drug trafficking' when in fact paid police informers had pushed them to buy drugs for them. In 13 cases, women were framed by their boyfriends who were paid by the police.



Boyfriend’s betrayal: ABQ woman jailed after ATF informant lured her into drug deals

US law forbids entrapment - but defines it as when a police officer does the entrapping. Police paying a 3rd party to entrap is a-ok under the law.

Insane country.
 


Dame_Enda

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In US law an entrapment defence requires that a defendent was lured by cops to commit a crime they otherwise wouldn't have committed.
 

gleeful

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In US law an entrapment defence requires that a defendent was lured by cops to commit a crime they otherwise wouldn't have committed.
That only applies if the cops are directly involved. If they pay an 'informer' to do it, anything goes.
 

Sync

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That only applies if the cops are directly involved. If they pay an 'informer' to do it, anything goes.
Don't think that's right. Agents of the police can be used as part of an entrapment defence. That's the point of the appeal being pursued in the article.
 

Dame_Enda

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Entrapment raises serious questions about whether cops are creating crime in order to catch it.
 

Sync

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Entrapment raises serious questions about whether cops are creating crime in order to catch it.

That's the definition of it. The police or their agent entice an individual to commit a crime they otherwise wouldn't have.
 

gleeful

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Anything that keeps all those privatised prisons full
is good business in the land of the free! :roll:

There are more people per capita in prison in the good 'ole US of A
than in russia, china or north korea.

Half the "terrorists" they catch in the act there are set up by FBI sting operations
where they are incited to commit terrorist acts by agents then given fake explosives.

They have a few on the go at all times then they reel them in at politically opportune moments.
Never mind per capita - there are twice as many people in prison in the US as there are in China's prisons, despite China having nearly 5 times more people and being a communist dictatorship.

If you are in jail on earth, there's a 1 in 4 chance you are American.

Ireland would need to jail 30,000 people to match the US rate.
 

OrderoftheDragon

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Never mind per capita - there are twice as many people in prison in the US as there are in China's prisons, despite China having nearly 5 times more people and being a communist dictatorship.

If you are in jail on earth, there's a 1 in 4 chance you are American.

Ireland would need to jail 30,000 people to match the US rate.

There should be a lot more people in jail here, than currently are..........maybe the americans have gone slightly overboard but we have been drowning for a long long time........how many innocent people have been killed by criminals out on bail ?
 

gleeful

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There should be a lot more people in jail here, than currently are..........maybe the americans have gone slightly overboard but we have been drowning for a long long time........how many innocent people have been killed by criminals out on bail ?
There is always a balance to be struck, but I think Ireland is closer to the right number.

There are indeed individual criminals who should be in jail but simply saying "more people should be in jail" does nothing to solve this issue. Jail is a very ineffective punishment. Its basically an expensive way to make bad people worse.
 

OrderoftheDragon

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There is always a balance to be struck, but I think Ireland is closer to the right number.

There are indeed individual criminals who should be in jail but simply saying "more people should be in jail" does nothing to solve this issue. Jail is a very ineffective punishment. Its basically an expensive way to make bad people worse.
A lot of wishy washy rubbish there, jail is totally effective at preventing criminals commit crime. For career criminals jail is simply a part of the job, that sometimes cannot be avoided and on occasion a place to get the head together and take stock.

The Irish justice system is run for the benefit of many of the actors in the play.....but rarely the victims.

If you lock up all the repeat offenders then who will keep the wheels of "justice" turning ?.....ask yourself that.
 

Researchwill

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That only applies if the cops are directly involved. If they pay an 'informer' to do it, anything goes.
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-648-entrapment-outrageous-government-conduct

"The Supreme Court has never held that the government's mere use of undercover agents or informants, or the use of deception by them, gives rise to a due process violation, although in Russell it left open that possibility. "

It is an interesting issue that it seems may not yet be fully decided.
 

Researchwill

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A lot of wishy washy rubbish there, jail is totally effective at preventing criminals commit crime. For career criminals jail is simply a part of the job, that sometimes cannot be avoided and on occasion a place to get the head together and take stock.

The Irish justice system is run for the benefit of many of the actors in the play.....but rarely the victims.

If you lock up all the repeat offenders then who will keep the wheels of "justice" turning ?.....ask yourself that.
For Ireland to approach USA rates then the prison service budget will need to increase from some 350 million a year to at least 2-2.5 billion a year. To put that in context AGS budget is about 1.2 billion courts service 50 million criminal legal aid 50 million and DPP at a guess a max of 100 million.

So do you propose higher tax or cutting of education health or welfare to allow for the extra 2 billion a year.

BTW most of the extra budget is wages as not increasing staff will just put current staff at risk.
 

Sync

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Deception's a necessary step of any undercover work or informant action. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. A court's never going to find there is.

There's a difference between lying ("As a drugs seller, if you sell me the drugs in the back of your car, I'm going to sell them onwards") and entrapment ("I know you don't deal drugs, but I desperately need them or I'll get killed, is there anything you can do?")

The point of the thread seems to be that entrapment is wrong. I don't think anyone's arguing it's right. The people in question don't appear to have been framed, they appear to have been entrapped.
 

Dame_Enda

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There is an argument that the police should be about reducing crime rather than creating it.
 


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