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US Views The UK As A Trojan Horse In The EU


YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Last night on #VINB US journalist Peter Spiegel (Brussels bureau chief of the Financial Times and former national security correspondent for LA Times and WSJ) made an interesting and somewhat obvious comment (26:00) about the way the US perceives the role of the UK in the EU.

Peter argues that the US views the UK primarily as a trojan horse in the EU to influence EU policies from inside. I think Peter makes a very valid point and one that does make you wonder how long the US can maintain its rat in the system and at what price.
 

eyelight

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Explains this....

The Obama administration has publicly expressed concern about the impact of a UK referendum on its future relationship with the EU.

Philip Gordon, a senior official in the US State Department, said it was in America's interests to see a "strong British voice within the EU".
 

Picasso Republic

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The USA takes advantage of the fact that the UK public cannot seem to differentiate between a 'military and foreign policy alliance' and an 'economic alliance'. The population of the UK is then confused by regressive politicians who seem to believe the Empire was harmed by the UKs EEC membership and that somehow leaving the EU will see a return to past glories.

For once the USA and UK interests are now aligned and US public statements that it would be best for both the USA and UK that the UK remains in the EU are correct.
 

RobertW

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Cameron is using this "proposed referendum" on the EU for three reasons:

1 - To placate the anti-EU nutters in his own party.

2 - To ease the fears of Tory MPs who fear they'll lose votes to UKIP at the UK 2015 GE.

3 - To stir up a bit of jingoism among the British electorate to obtain votes. The present coalition government over there will not be re-elected as things stand as the Lib Dems will have effectively unified the left when their supporters abandon them to vote for Labour in 2015.

As Peter Mandelson pointed out . . It would be economic insanity for the UK to leave the EU.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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Cameron is using this "proposed referendum" on the EU for three reasons:

1 - To placate the anti-EU nutters in his own party.

2 - To ease the fears of Tory MPs who fear they'll lose votes to UKIP at the UK 2015 GE.

3 - To stir up a bit of jingoism among the British electorate to obtain votes. The present coalition government over there will not be re-elected as things stand as the Lib Dems will have effectively unified the left when their supporters abandon them to vote for Labour in 2015.

As Peter Mandelson pointed out . . It would be economic insanity for the UK to leave the EU.
Maybe the Brits are sick and tired of being the informer for the US in the EU? The current political insubordination a form of unconscious repression? The US administration must be really worried about the Brits if they send Philip Gordon to put them back in their box.
 

sgtharper

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Cameron is using this "proposed referendum" on the EU for three reasons:1 - To placate the anti-EU nutters in his own party.
Oh right, "anti-EU nutters" is it? I see, so in your opinion Euroscepticism is not a perfectly reasonalbe viewpoint borne out by the events of he past four years, nor is it now the mainstream view in the UK as a whole, and anyone who questions the whole Euro-project nowadays is a "nutter" are they? Because it's working such f*cking wonders for Greece,Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland obviously.
2 - To ease the fears of Tory MPs who fear they'll lose votes to UKIP at the UK 2015 GE.
A prospect about which he personally couldn't give a toss obviously, what with his huge majority in Parliament and all.
3 - To stir up a bit of jingoism among the British electorate to obtain votes.
Yes of course,our old friend "jingoism", always wheeled out whenver a British PM stands up for the UK's best interests it seems. Seriously ,you'll have to give me a few examples of this, as I seem to have missed it entirely.
The present coalition government over there will not be re-elected as things stand as the Lib Dems will have effectively unified the left when their supporters abandon them to vote for Labour in 2015.
Euroscepticism reaches right across the political board in the UK now, with the exception of the dinosaurs in the Lib. Dems. of course.There is virtualy no enthusaism for it at all.
As Peter Mandelson pointed out . . It would be economic insanity for the UK to leave the EU.
Peter Mandelson?? The man who said this:
Staying out of the euro will mean fewer foreign businesses investing here, fewer good jobs being created and less trade being done with our European partners. At the moment, more than half Britain’s trade is with Europe’s giant single market. But while we are using a different currency from the rest of Europe we are trading in this market with one arm tied behind our back.
in 2003?? No, thanks all the same.Now, heres' a few articles you need to read. Of all the bad arguments for being in the EU, the worst is to humour Barack Obama – Telegraph BlogsPeter Mandelson is still trotting out his discredited line about foreign investment depending on Europe – Telegraph BlogsEurope’s dogmatic ruling class remains wedded to its folly - Telegraph
 
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Analyzer

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To be honest, the EU is a Trojan Horse for the Anglo Bondholders.
 

livingstone

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Oh right, "anti-EU nutters" is it? I see, so in your opinion Euroscepticism is not a perfectly reasonalbe viewpoint borne out by the events of he past four years, nor is it now the mainstream view in the UK as a whole, and anyone who questions the whole Euro-project nowadays is a "nutter" are they? Because it's working such f*cking wonders for Greece,Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland obviously. A prospect about which he personally couldn't give a toss obviously, what with his huge majority in Parliament and all.Yes of course,our old friend "jingoism", always wheeled out whenver a British PM stands up for the UK's best interests it seems. Seriously ,you'll have to give me a few examples of this, as I seem to have missed it entirely.Euroscepticism reaches right across the political board in the UK now, with the exception of the dinosaurs in the Lib. Dems. of course.There is virtualy no enthusaism for it at all.Peter Mandelson?? Yesterday's man, no-one's remotely interested in what he has to say anymore. now, heres' a few articles from today's Telegraph, you need to read them and inform yourself about current thinking on this side of the Irish Sea.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9790932/Europes-dogmatic-ruling-class-remains-wedded-to-its-folly.htmlhttp://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100197512/of-all-the-bad-arguments-for-being-in-the-eu-the-worst-is-to-humour-barack-obama/

I don't think Cameron himself wants to withdraw from the EU. He's between a rock and a hard place on this - he knows that anti-EU votes are soft votes, and that people will vote first and foremost for jobs and security. As such, even though people in the UK may be hostile to the EU, if there's any hint that leaving would hurt the economy, they will decide to stay (and crucially, rabid Euroscepticism will turn them off the Tories). And with every job-creator coming out and urging the UK to remain in the EU, more and more people will not want to translate their hostility to the EU into job-killing departure.

Ultimately, Cameron has to choose between losing votes of the very hard Eurosceptic voters or losing the votes of moderates who listen to the likes of the CBI and the City.
 

parentheses

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The Anglo American viewpoint has always been that it would be a nightmare if the strongest countries in Europe came together without a controlling Anglo-American involvement.

For example some form of Frano-German-Russian rapprochement would be seen as a disaster by the Anglo Americans.

Little Englander eurosceptics fail to see that Britian has been required to be the trojan horse in Europe and that a simple disengagement of Britian from Europe will probably not happen.
 

YouKnowWhatIMeanLike

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The Anglo American viewpoint has always been that it would be a nightmare if the strongest countries in Europe came together without a controlling Anglo-American involvement.

For example some form of Frano-German-Russian rapprochement would be seen as a disaster by the Anglo Americans.

Little Englander eurosceptics fail to see that Britian has been required to be the trojan horse in Europe and that a simple disengagement of Britian from Europe will probably not happen.
Britain's espionage services for the US will come at a high price I would think, who is going to reward them for it? Will the US continue to guarantee access to cheap oil and gas? bend the rules to maintain a lax banking regulation in the UK and provide geopolitical support? Force the EU to accept concessions for the UK?
 

Al.

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The Anglo American viewpoint has always been that it would be a nightmare if the strongest countries in Europe came together without a controlling Anglo-American involvement.

For example some form of Frano-German-Russian rapprochement would be seen as a disaster by the Anglo Americans.

Little Englander eurosceptics fail to see that Britian has been required to be the trojan horse in Europe and that a simple disengagement of Britian from Europe will probably not happen.
That one phrase destroys your whole credibility. It also shows your alignment with Germany and against Eire.
 

Al.

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Last night on #VINB US journalist Peter Spiegel (Brussels bureau chief of the Financial Times and former national security correspondent for LA Times and WSJ) made an interesting and somewhat obvious comment (26:00) about the way the US perceives the role of the UK in the EU.

Peter argues that the US views the UK primarily as a trojan horse in the EU to influence EU policies from inside. I think Peter makes a very valid point and one that does make you wonder how long the US can maintain its rat in the system and at what price.
Stuff and nonsense.

If anything, the Obama Administration is a EU Trojan horse within the USA. Obama has already expressed his admiration for "European leadership", and regards Germany as the USA's most important ally.
 
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RobertW

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A prospect about which he personally couldn't give a toss obviously, what with his huge majority in Parliament and all.
Your entire argument is anti-EU rubbish.

Regarding this particular point. . . You do realise that a 2% swing from the Conservatives to Labour will see Labour with more seats. . Don't you?

Cameron is just tapping into a bit of anti-EU Eurosceptism as he's desperate for votes. . . "Gimme your vote and you'll get some sort of referendum". He'll take their votes but there'll be no referendum in the UK on leaving the EU.
 

Al.

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Your entire argument is anti-EU rubbish.

Regarding this particular point. . . You do realise that a 2% swing from the Conservatives to Labour will see Labour with more seats. . Don't you?

Cameron is just tapping into a bit of anti-EU Eurosceptism as he's desperate for votes. . . "Gimme your vote and you'll get some sort of referendum". He'll take their votes but there'll be no referendum in the UK on leaving the EU.
So Cameron ought to continue to fight against the will of the people? Sounds like pro-EU rubbish to me, and rubbish in earnest.

While Enda Kenny goes and prostrates himself before the Bavarians begging for more cash that will leave the Irish people with even greater obligations to an external power, the Brits actually stand up for themselves. Totally fascinating.
 

RobertW

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So Cameron ought to continue to fight against the will of the people? Sounds like pro-EU rubbish to me, and rubbish in earnest.
Gimme a break.

UKIP got 3% of all votes and no seats in the 2010 UK General Election.
 

stopdoingstuff

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This is an entirely fake debate- most of these nations are in NATO anyway, and the the US already has possession of most of Germany's gold reserves.
 

Al.

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Gimme a break.

UKIP got 3% of all votes and no seats in the 2010 UK General Election
Poor diversionary argument. Representing the UKIP as the totality of the political spectrum that has sentiment for independence from the European Union is a canard, mainly because those with traditional conservative views do not subscribe to libertarian (socially-liberal) views.
 

sgtharper

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Your entire argument is anti-EU rubbish.
Oh it's anti-EU all right, but it ain't rubbish.

Regarding this particular point. . . You do realise that a 2% swing from the Conservatives to Labour will see Labour with more seats. . Don't you?
And you clearly DON't realise that I was being ironic? Read it again eh? Next time I'll use bold and underline it. :rolleyes:

Cameron is just tapping into a bit of anti-EU Eurosceptism as he's desperate for votes. . . "Gimme your vote and you'll get some sort of referendum". He'll take their votes but there'll be no referendum in the UK on leaving the EU.
Almost the entire feckin' Conservative Party is now Eurosceptic/Euro-realist to one degree or another, just like the majority of the electorate in fact, don't you know even that? Everything has changed now. The UK is on it's way out, it's only a matter of time and timing.
 
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