Vague folk memories of cruel 19th century evictions of two acre tenant farmers influence today's snailpace eviction procedures on houses

Patslatt1

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See photos of evictions Post Famine eviction photographs show how merciless British landlords were | IrishCentral.com Before the late 1840s Famine, large numbers of landless Irish travelled the country in the hope of getting a lease from the numerous evictions taking place. Often, the evicted farmer might have worked a farm as tiny as two acres which was enough to supply a family with food from the extremely prolific potato crops, although many of the poorest farmers worked seasonally in mainland Britain to survive. After the Famine, the pace of evictions still remained high despite the plunge in population as pastoral agriculture became more profitable than tillage.
So generations of 19th century Irish had a horror of cruel evictions. Some of this thinking has persisted into a present day vague folk memory that regards evictions as cruel even though the repossessions are no longer for mud huts and tiny farms but for expensive houses which only landlords could have afforded in the 19th century.
This sentimental irrational thinking has consequences for average new home owners who typically have to pay about 3,000 euros more a year in mortgage interest because of the extreme difficulty mortgage lenders face in the courts for repossessions of homes in mortgage default. Such interest is charged at the highest rates in the EU bar chaotic Greece. Instead of speeding up repossession procedures, new legislation planned by the government could result in even longer delays because of irresponsible populist political opposition.
 


Ardillaun

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The funny thing is those ancient images are of tenants, not owners. How come they don't make us more sympathetic to renters?
 

rainmaker

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The funny thing is those ancient images are of tenants, not owners. How come they don't make us more sympathetic to renters?
I'm not so sure.

One cultural difference I have noticed between the UK and Ireland is a noticeable cultural hostility to eviction in Ireland- far more than you would find in the UK or elsewhere, and a palpable hostility to landlords as a class.

Something I have always personally attributed to the Irish historical experience.
 

carlovian

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The funny thing is those ancient images are of tenants, not owners. How come they don't make us more sympathetic to renters?
Its more a class thing with the Irish ruling class taking over from the British.

Half the present government are landlords while none are tenants.
Not sure fg would allow any of their tds to be tenants,
 

Dame_Enda

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Theres no doubt some truth in the argument it affects current popular attitudes to evictions.
 

Sweet Darling

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Its more a class thing with the Irish ruling class taking over from the British.

Half the present government are landlords while none are tenants.
Not sure fg would allow any of their tds to be tenants,
Do you have any figures on the number of working class landlords in the game?
 

Patslatt1

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Its more a class thing with the Irish ruling class taking over from the British.

Half the present government are landlords while none are tenants.
Not sure fg would allow any of their tds to be tenants,
To keep power and neutralise lefty opposition to high rents, the FG led government has passed a lot of landlord unfriendly legislation including rent controls which may never be lifted contrary to promises going by experience of supposedly temporary rent controls internationally.
 
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carlovian

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To keep power and neutralise lefty opposition to high rents, the FG led government has passed a lot of landlord unfriendly legislation including rent controls which may never be lifted as promised going by experience of supposedly temporary rent controls internationally.
Rents are 40% higher than at the height of the Celtic bubble years.

The average rent in Dublin is now 2,000 euro.

How much money do landlords want ?
 

carlovian

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Do you have any figures on the number of working class landlords in the game?
How would anyone have those figures.

Is there a working class box to be ticked on a buy to let application?
 

cytex

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Rents are 40% higher than at the height of the Celtic bubble years.

The average rent in Dublin is now 2,000 euro.

How much money do landlords want ?
If you want to see why go to Daft.ie and look for properties for sale in dublin city center .


They are currently 15 under 400k 3 beds thats it in the entire of dublin city center currently they are 15 thats it in the entire of dublin city center . if you go under 500k They are 27 . A mortgage at 400k is just over 1k a month then the landlord has to factor in wear and tear of the appartment and repairs say 300 a month he has to save . The other 500 a month is to cover him if the poor tenant just doesn't want to pay rent or leave the appartment this can take a year to get them evicted and the Landlord has to factor in this. This leaves him approx 200 a month on a 400k investment .


Quite simply put it is not the landlords fault that rents are so high . There is a major shortage of decent appartments in the city center so prices are high which makes rents high.

Just to put this into context dallas pop 1.2 mil A quick google search shows 829 condos and 72 appartments in their city center for this price range most much less and much bigger . yes this is comparing apples to oranges as dallas isn't as compact as dublin but this is where we need to get to in order for rents to decline.
Duplex & Triplex Homes For Sale - 1,058 Homes | Zillow
 
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Patslatt1

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Rents are 40% higher than at the height of the Celtic bubble years.

The average rent in Dublin is now 2,000 euro.

How much money do landlords want ?
The correct question is what is the government doing to reduce the planning permission red tape that panders to NIMBYS. That is the key to housing supply and relief from high rents. Rent controls are only an attack on symptoms instead of a cure and discourage supply. The government has given Bord Pleanala power to fast track housing projects of over a hundred homes and seems to be spending more on housing infrastructure such as sewerage and water. But the result is what counts in meeting housing targets of about 25,000 units a year minimum.
 

McTell

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No
The funny thing is those ancient images are of tenants, not owners. How come they don't make us more sympathetic to renters?
The state pays a ground rent on dublin castle, government buildings and, er, the GPO.

At the same time it is the biggest landlord.
 

runwiththewind

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The state pays a ground rent on dublin castle, government buildings and, er, the GPO.

At the same time it is the biggest landlord.
Who is the landlord?
 

carlovian

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The correct question is what is the government doing to reduce the planning permission red tape that panders to NIMBYS. That is the key to housing supply and relief from high rents. Rent controls are only an attack on symptoms instead of a cure and discourage supply. The government has given Bord Pleanala power to fast track housing projects of over a hundred homes and seems to be spending more on housing infrastructure such as sewerage and water. But the result is what counts in meeting housing targets of about 25,000 units a year minimum.
Tend to agree with you on the planning point.
It’s such an Irish thing to buy a house in an area and then object to every new planning application that comes forward.

And when a government minister objects its even worse.
 

cytex

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Who is the landlord?
Some British lord the Earl of Pembroke whoever that is . You would swear we didn't win our independance or something . These lands should have a compulsory purchase order put on them for 1 cent each end of story .

 

PBP voter

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Some British lord the Earl of Pembroke whoever that is . You would swear we didn't win our independance or something . These lands should have a compulsory purchase order put on them for 1 cent each end of story .

You can buy out the freehold for a few hundreds euros in many cases.

We are talking about a ground rent of around 1 euro a week or less for many properties.

Inflation means it's not even worthwhile collecting it. If people don't pay it costs so much to take them to court it's not worth it.

 

galteeman

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Tend to agree with you on the planning point.
It’s such an Irish thing to buy a house in an area and then object to every new planning application that comes forward.

And when a government minister objects its even worse.
nah it's not an Irish thing. Same thing has paralysed cities all over the world
check out his article about San Francisco:
San Francisco residents and politicians have exploited a maze of building codes, zoning laws, and permitting requirements to halt, delay, or alter projects that would bring more homes to a city in the midst of a housing affordability crisis.
 

PBP voter

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I'm not so sure.

One cultural difference I have noticed between the UK and Ireland is a noticeable cultural hostility to eviction in Ireland- far more than you would find in the UK or elsewhere, and a palpable hostility to landlords as a class.

Something I have always personally attributed to the Irish historical experience.
The UK has a much better safety net for those who lose their house.
 

McTell

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No
Some British lord the Earl of Pembroke whoever that is . You would swear we didn't win our independance or something . These lands should have a compulsory purchase order put on them for 1 cent each end of story .
//

Here is the GPO owner with sports car and cute little dog. An estate of 14,500 acres, and the protestant royalist owner of the GPO, seems god has a sense of humour after all.

 


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