Varadkar discussed Universal Credit with UK - Irish Times

Dame_Enda

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The Irish Times reports that in February, Leo Varadkar discussed welfare reform, with current First Secretary Damian Green , including the now much-criticised policy of [URL="https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/uk-government-s-universal-credit-dream-turns-to-nightmare-1.3262171?mode=amp]Universal Credit[/URL]. Could it be coming here?

Universal Credit replaces weekly social welfare payments with a single monthly payment, which gradually reduces when a claimant starts temporary or part time employment in line with hours worked.

The problem is the rollout has been botched. People are complaining of getting NO money for six weeks between coming off the weekly payment system onto the monthly payment system. Last week the House of Commons voted 299-0 to ask the government to scrap Universal Credit - partly because the Government imposed a three line whip for MPs to abstain, fearing they would lose the vote. Many on U.C. are destitute.

Recent FG gatherings have seen complaints of a "something for nothing society", provoking loud cheers from the Right of the party. Its imperative that civil society mobilise if attempts are made to introduce U.C. here

Discussed on Question Time BBC1 Thursday.

[video=youtube_share;1SdopPXmYRk]http://youtu.be/1SdopPXmYRk[/video]
 
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Sync

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Yeah I've never been clear on the benefit you get from this really.

You've got the least educated, least successful people in society. They can't run their lives. We're going to give them more money less times a year and trust that they'll know how to save it and spend it judiciously. When of course they can't and so they lose out and their landlords lose out.

If the goal is "Educate the uneducated", then invest properly in that, make attendance of life skills classes a requirement of their dole. But taking tips from the UK's terrible rollout of this would not be a good idea.
 

Sync

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https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/oct/21/uk-retirees-state-pension-financial-future

And these people have been working all their lives. So 50 years old, 25 years working say, no private pension savings. Completely at the mercy of the State. These are the workers. Not the long term unemployables UC would impact.

The number of people that have mismanaged their lives is amazing.

If Varadkars going to do something radical: introduce Personal Finance as a mandatory subject for secondary school students, teach people how to manage their bloody money.
 

blinding

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https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/oct/21/uk-retirees-state-pension-financial-future

And these people have been working all their lives. So 50 years old, 25 years working say, no private pension savings. Completely at the mercy of the State. These are the workers. Not the long term unemployables UC would impact.

The number of people that have mismanaged their lives is amazing.

If Varadkars going to do something radical: introduce Personal Finance as a mandatory subject for secondary school students, teach people how to manage their bloody money.
Perhaps Politicians don’t want People to understand how much money the Politicians are taking from them ....!
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Yeah I've never been clear on the benefit you get from this really.

You've got the least educated, least successful people in society. They can't run their lives. We're going to give them more money less times a year and trust that they'll know how to save it and spend it judiciously. When of course they can't and so they lose out and their landlords lose out.

If the goal is "Educate the uneducated", then invest properly in that, make attendance of life skills classes a requirement of their dole. But taking tips from the UK's terrible rollout of this would not be a good idea.
Except I suspect we'll have an Irish version where it's win win for the landlord - I would imagine if you're in "certain" accommodation then the rent element will be withheld and paid directly, so there's no risk for the REITs
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/oct/21/uk-retirees-state-pension-financial-future

And these people have been working all their lives. So 50 years old, 25 years working say, no private pension savings. Completely at the mercy of the State. These are the workers. Not the long term unemployables UC would impact.

The number of people that have mismanaged their lives is amazing.

If Varadkars going to do something radical: introduce Personal Finance as a mandatory subject for secondary school students, teach people how to manage their bloody money.

No, government should manage the cost of living
 

Clanrickard

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https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/oct/21/uk-retirees-state-pension-financial-future

And these people have been working all their lives. So 50 years old, 25 years working say, no private pension savings. Completely at the mercy of the State. These are the workers. Not the long term unemployables UC would impact.

The number of people that have mismanaged their lives is amazing.

If Varadkars going to do something radical: introduce Personal Finance as a mandatory subject for secondary school students, teach people how to manage their bloody money.
Or better still a Universal National Income.
 

bokuden

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UBI is the way forward, but the state will have to manage the cost of living, otherwise landlords, waste disposal companies, healthcare etc will just devour it.
 

livingstone

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Yeah I've never been clear on the benefit you get from this really.

You've got the least educated, least successful people in society. They can't run their lives. We're going to give them more money less times a year and trust that they'll know how to save it and spend it judiciously. When of course they can't and so they lose out and their landlords lose out.

If the goal is "Educate the uneducated", then invest properly in that, make attendance of life skills classes a requirement of their dole. But taking tips from the UK's terrible rollout of this would not be a good idea.
The core design of UC makes sense. A single benefit calculated based on circumstances - with an earnings allowance that allows you to earn £x before benefits start to fall, and a specific taper rate (e.g. For every £ earned above X, your benefit falls by y pence).

All of that makes total sense and would be a welcome simplification.

Monthly payments, delays, payments in arrears etc are - depending how you look at it - either a combination of botched roll out and design flaws, or deliberate shortcomings to make life on UC more difficult and therefore less 'attractive'.
 

livingstone

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https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/oct/21/uk-retirees-state-pension-financial-future

And these people have been working all their lives. So 50 years old, 25 years working say, no private pension savings. Completely at the mercy of the State. These are the workers. Not the long term unemployables UC would impact.

The number of people that have mismanaged their lives is amazing.

If Varadkars going to do something radical: introduce Personal Finance as a mandatory subject for secondary school students, teach people how to manage their bloody money.
I don't think pensions are affected by UB. There's obviously a wider point about people not choosing to - or being able to afford to - plan for their retirement. But the Governments auto enrolment requirements have really improved that (to the extent that private pension tax relief is now costing the treasury too more than expected and has to be managed downwards).
 

Clanrickard

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UBI is the way forward, but the state will have to manage the cost of living, otherwise landlords, waste disposal companies, healthcare etc will just devour it.
The state cannot manage the cost of living. Planned economies have been tried and all have failed abysmally. What the state should do is set up agencies like a housing agency which would be competition for private landlords and regulate fees in certain sectors as they do with taxi drivers.
 

Sync

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I don't think pensions are affected by UB. There's obviously a wider point about people not choosing to - or being able to afford to - plan for their retirement. But the Governments auto enrolment requirements have really improved that (to the extent that private pension tax relief is now costing the treasury too more than expected and has to be managed downwards).
It's there to show that people who have been working for decades can't manage their money, let alone people who are unemployable.
 

stopdoingstuff

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https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/oct/21/uk-retirees-state-pension-financial-future

And these people have been working all their lives. So 50 years old, 25 years working say, no private pension savings. Completely at the mercy of the State. These are the workers. Not the long term unemployables UC would impact.

The number of people that have mismanaged their lives is amazing.

If Varadkars going to do something radical: introduce Personal Finance as a mandatory subject for secondary school students, teach people how to manage their bloody money.
I think the simplest thing is just to auto-enroll everyone in a pension scheme (any maybe some form of savings). Sure they can opt out but I reckon most would stay in.
 

stopdoingstuff

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I don't think pensions are affected by UB. There's obviously a wider point about people not choosing to - or being able to afford to - plan for their retirement. But the Governments auto enrolment requirements have really improved that (to the extent that private pension tax relief is now costing the treasury too more than expected and has to be managed downwards).
There is pension auto-enrolment in the UK now?

EDIT: Ok I see- great idea:

By 2018 all employers must provide a workplace pension scheme. This is called ‘automatic enrolment’.

Your employer must automatically enrol you into a pension scheme and make contributions to your pension if all of the following apply:

you’re classed as a ‘worker’
you’re aged between 22 and State Pension age
you earn at least £10,000 per year
you usually (‘ordinarily’) work in the UK (read the detailed guidance if you’re not sure)
Use the staging date calculator to check when you could be enrolled. (Your employer can delay the date they enrol you in certain circumstances.) The calculator is for employers but also works for employees.
https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions/joining-a-workplace-pension
 

bokuden

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The state cannot manage the cost of living. Planned economies have been tried and all have failed abysmally. What the state should do is set up agencies like a housing agency which would be competition for private landlords and regulate fees in certain sectors as they do with taxi drivers.
Of course the State can manage the cost of living (within limits). it does so all the time. This doesn't preclude competition BTW. Neo liberals are terrible ideologues.
 

bokuden

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It's there to show that people who have been working for decades can't manage their money, let alone people who are unemployable.
If people who have been working for decades don't have a pension, then maybe, just maybe, the problem is a structural one with leaving everything to the private sector and private decisons? I don't really care about having half a dozen bin companies competing to collect my waste. Just one is fine, as long as it's affordable and does what it says.Same with pensions.
 

livingstone

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It's there to show that people who have been working for decades can't manage their money, let alone people who are unemployable.
I don't think that's at all clear. Saving to a pension fund is a great idea if you can afford it. But there are people who work but can't afford it and resign themselves to relying on a state pension when they retire.
 

gleeful

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In theory, universal credit is a reasonably good idea. The Tories seem to have completely fupped it up thought.
 

Sync

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I don't think that's at all clear. Saving to a pension fund is a great idea if you can afford it. But there are people who work but can't afford it and resign themselves to relying on a state pension when they retire.
Except people can afford it. Average UK household expense on alcohol is 540 gbp. Average cost to smoke 10 a day is 1000 a year. People spend 45 a week eating out, let's say you half that to eat at home so another 1200. So if you're an average drinker, smoker and eater, that's 2700 pounds a year without looking at how you've structured your other expenses.

On the average wage, that's enough to get you your 40% pension amount if you start it at 30.

The problem isn't that people can't afford it based on their salary, their problem is that they fail to identify what their goals actually are, prioritise those goals and then take the needed financial steps to achieve them.

And that problem's not Leo's and it's not mine (Although I dislike having to pay so much in tax to bolster others failings). His pension's lined up, so is mine. The problem is for the people who have abjectly failed to manage their own lives and are placing their financial future on the largesse of others.
 
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Clanrickard

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Of course the State can manage the cost of living (within limits). it does so all the time. This doesn't preclude competition BTW. Neo liberals are terrible ideologues.
I never said it precluded competition. Competition is the best way of driving down prices except for certain sectors like water, electricity and housing which are essentials.

Except people can afford it. Average UK household expense on alcohol is 540 gbp. Average cost to smoke 10 a day is 1000 a year. People spend 45 a week eating out, let's say you half that to eat at home so another 1200. So if you're an average drinker, smoker and eater, that's 2700 pounds a year without looking at how you've structured your other expenses.

On the average wage, that's enough to get you your 40% pension amount if you start it at 30.

The problem isn't that people can't afford it based on their salary, their problem is that they fail to identify what their goals actually are, prioritise those goals and then take the needed financial steps to achieve them.
Exactly. I did a run for SVP and we had families complaining about having no money while having the most expensiove phone going.
 
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