Varadkar To Suggest A Solution To The Problem Of Undocumented Irish.

Sync

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Interesting topic for discussion during Leo’s trip to the US:

The taoiseach will propose a new “reciprocal agreement” for the undocumented Irish in his meeting with Donald Trump today.

John Deasy, the Fine Gael TD and special envoy for the undocumented Irish in the US, will sit in on the meeting between the US president and Leo Varadkar in the Oval Office.

Government sources have said that even if the president agrees to examine the proposals, they are not confident that the reforms will be enacted due to a logjam in the US congress.

Varadkar will propose an arrangement under which new visas and pathways to work are provided for Americans in Ireland with, in return, a similar arrangement for the undocumented Irish in America.
It’s something at least. It’s better than the previous “sher we’re white, not like the Mexicans” tone that was struck by previous governments.

There’s about 50k undocumented in the US, this would help them out. The sop of visas for US citizens to Ireland would be the face saving cover the US needs if they want to do the deal.

It does seem unlikely though. It’s hard to see what benefit the US state gets from it.
 


Catalpast

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Interesting topic for discussion during Leo’s trip to the US:



It’s something at least. It’s better than the previous “sher we’re white, not like the Mexicans” tone that was struck by previous governments.

There’s about 50k undocumented in the US, this would help them out. The sop of visas for US citizens to Ireland would be the face saving cover the US needs if they want to do the deal.

It does seem unlikely though. It’s hard to see what benefit the US state gets from it.
They should come home

- we need them...

They should not be breaking the Law in another Country.

And that's what DJ Trump will tell us

He's right of course.
 

Sync

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And that’s not an unsympathetic position. In terms of equity, I find it very hard to say that a 30 year old Irish person who illegally stayed there for 10 years has an easier route to citizenship than a 13 year old born in the US of illegal parents.
 

Catalpast

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And that’s not an unsympathetic position. In terms of equity, I find it very hard to say that a 30 year old Irish person who illegally stayed there for 10 years has an easier route to citizenship than a 13 year old born in the US of illegal parents.
We cant ask of the Americans what we deny to others here in Ireland

- and vice versa...

There maybe 50,000 illegal Irish in the USA

- there are at least 25,000 'undocumented' here already

But the whole thing is ignored.
 

Roberto Jordan

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And that’s not an unsympathetic position. In terms of equity, I find it very hard to say that a 30 year old Irish person who illegally stayed there for 10 years has an easier route to citizenship than a 13 year old born in the US of illegal parents.
A child born to undocumented parents in the US is a US citizen by birthright.

The dreamers are people born elsewhere, brought to the US as minors. A very different thing in the context of US citizenship.

There have been multiple bills to eliminate the jus soli right to citizenship in the case of children of illegal immigrants , but as yet none have past. Undoubtedly as part o any eventual immigration reforms this will be one of the "quid pro quo" reforms tightening treatment of illegal migrants post any reform and , it has to said, a reasonable reform on an international basis.
 

Kevin Parlon

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It would be better IMO to have had Varadkar offer this in return to make it easier for Irish citizens to migrate legally to the USA (It's not easy).

When Australia signed a FTA with the US a little while ago, they got a special visa category for AU citizens making it super easy to move there for work. (Yes, there's a category of Visa only for Aussies)

There's something about us that seems to want to reward chancers. Whether it's people who refuse to pay their water bills or people who enter or stay somewhere they're not legally entitled to be.

As an aside, V could hardly have chosen a more sensitive area to go poking in.
 

Sync

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As an aside, V could hardly have chosen a more sensitive area to go poking in.
Oh sure there is. LGBT rights with mike pence is on the agenda as well.
 

Roberto Jordan

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It would be better IMO to have had Varadkar offer this in return to make it easier for Irish citizens to migrate legally to the USA (It's not easy).

When Australia signed a FTA with the US a little while ago, they got a special visa category for AU citizens making it super easy to move there for work. (Yes, there's a category of Visa only for Aussies)

There's something about us that seems to want to reward chancers. Whether it's people who refuse to pay their water bills or people who enter or stay somewhere they're not legally entitled to be.

As an aside, V could hardly have chosen a more sensitive area to go poking in.
Thats a great shout ...

There is strand of thinking among some older irish immigrants that the government at home actively inhibited , or at the least did not actively lobby for, maintaining or expanding the legal route over several decades because of the sort of folk that might be lost in any increased flight of human capital.
I have always dismissed it but I when I see the pearl clutching about doctors & teachers migrating ( and the nonsense or trying to match pay rates in entirely different economies to entice them back) I do wonder. The government might be happy to push for regularizing status of bar men and plumbers ,until they can be enticed back home in next boom, but less open to expanding opportunities for IT grads ,.

The reality is the language barrier is massive obstacle to the skilled/professional labor market in the EU in general, not just in ireland. There is little difference in the mobility and access of a shop assistant from Maine moving to Cali than one from Poland or Greece to germany or the UK.....but for engineers, scientists, accountants, marketers, even bankers its a much much more challenging thing that the Eu is definitely inhibited by,
For this regrettable reason , the tongue of the saxon, increased ability for graduates to migrate to the US would be , I think , a positive.
 

Trainwreck

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Interesting topic for discussion during Leo’s trip to the US:



It’s something at least. It’s better than the previous “sher we’re white, not like the Mexicans” tone that was struck by previous governments.

There’s about 50k undocumented in the US, this would help them out. The sop of visas for US citizens to Ireland would be the face saving cover the US needs if they want to do the deal.

It does seem unlikely though. It’s hard to see what benefit the US state gets from it.


I'm not sure I am happy about granting an amnesty to all those US citizens who are in Ireland illegally.
 

HenryHorace

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Varadkar should shut the f u c k up. ALL illegals should be deported and banned from entering the states in the future.
 

gleeful

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And that’s not an unsympathetic position. In terms of equity, I find it very hard to say that a 30 year old Irish person who illegally stayed there for 10 years has an easier route to citizenship than a 13 year old born in the US of illegal parents.
If born in the US then the child is a citizen automatically.
 

Analyzer

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That would bring the average iq well below even yours , not a good idea
Generally those that bypass legal routes are of a lower education standard than those that follow legal routes.

In effect that statement, highlights your ignorance. To say nothing of your contempt.

If it was an attempt at humour, it has backfired.
 

Analyzer

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We need to stop sending politicians around making excuses for law breakers, and frauds.
 

mr_anderson

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Many Irish illegals are afraid of leaving in case they are forbidden from returning due to visa violations.

What Trump should do is allow all illegals to leave in some form of 'Amnesty Departure', whereby you are not barred from re-entry.

It would not solve their problem entirely, but could make a small dint in it.
 

Roberto Jordan

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Many Irish illegals are afraid of leaving in case they are forbidden from returning due to visa violations.

What Trump should do is allow all illegals to leave in some form of 'Amnesty Departure', whereby you are not barred from re-entry.

It would not solve their problem entirely, but could make a small dint in it.
I understand your reasoning but that is entirely impractical.

Those who are worried about not getting in are worried not because of any future vacations, but because they want might want to return to pick up their life stateside again. No way will this be facilitated through easy re-entry.

Its a very tough station being undocumented and something that 90% of such folks under 45 kind of just slipped into at the end of a "working holiday" They stayed and said "sure Ill do another 6 months or year, have saved and bit and sure why would it worry me then if I couldnt come back"....but they never left. ( and to your point many put off and put off the departure because its definitive and then suddenly 5 or 10 years have gone by and they no longer feel they can leave)

there is a small percentage who made an advance decision, a fraction of whom have personal, legal or other reasons & issues for enticing them to do so.

But in my experience its definitely a gradual thing for most.

Its a sad station and there are still "funny looking "marriages and roadtrips to the midwestern canadian border that go on.....

But there is no legitimate route to solving it that doesnt create a challenging precedent for the uS. Granted someone like trump might be open to a quid pro quo Irish deal on the basis that " we are not one of the loser countries",
But since Bobby Kennedy campaigned against the quotas the democrats, at a national level, are long past giving favorable status to the mother countries of their big city blue white voters.

A bilateral agreement ( if allowed under EU regs?) on future visas is probably the best that could be achieved as could be backed up by evidence of subsequent uptake ( assuming more americans want to go to ireland than to ,say, Haiti)
 

Round tower

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Many Irish illegals are afraid of leaving in case they are forbidden from returning due to visa violations.

What Trump should do is allow all illegals to leave in some form of 'Amnesty Departure', whereby you are not barred from re-entry.

It would not solve their problem entirely, but could make a small dint in it.
My nephew has gone over to America 3 rimes in less than a year, spent 3 months working came home for 6 weeks, went for 3 months working came home for 2 months, spent 2 months in America onlt home yesterday on a ordinary Visa, goes through London without any questions asked.
 

blokesbloke

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How many undocumented Americans are in Ireland illegally?
 

HenryHorace

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I always laugh my ass off at the "but the Irish built America" crowd. So flipping what?

If you are in a country illegally you are breaking the law of the land and should be deported. If you want to live in another country then go through the proper channels and become a citizen, get a green card etc... The great release valve of government after government here is sending our people off to America so they can break the law in order to reduce our own jobless numbers for their own political gain.
 


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