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Vehicular Manslaughter?


spidermom

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Joined
Sep 13, 2008
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9,189
Why do we not have this charge in Ireland?

Vehicular homicide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There are states in th US where you can serve up to 20 years for this charge!
When I googled the same in Ireland I get stories of fines and suspended sentences!


Is this another example of our lax attitiude to drink in this country.
Its a poxy indictment on us that those who recklessly murder other drivers can walk free with little more than a tap on the back of the hand!
The possibility of 20 years might teach us a lesson!
 

spidermom

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AYE...saw that...but the quoted news stories from the papers told a different story....suspended sentences.....3 year jail....5 years in jail.....fines....driving bans for sure...but I don't think its enough.

Wonder if we had a mandatory 20 year jail term for drink driving causing death...would this stop...!!

Have spent 25 years clearing up after these muppets....after today...I've had enough!!

Lock 'em up!
 

He3

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Oct 1, 2008
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With you all the way on that spidey
 

spidermom

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9,189

cctvstar

Member
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Feb 3, 2009
Messages
60
AYE...saw that...but the quoted news stories from the papers told a different story....suspended sentences.....3 year jail....5 years in jail.....fines....driving bans for sure...but I don't think its enough.

Wonder if we had a mandatory 20 year jail term for drink driving causing death...would this stop...!!

Have spent 25 years clearing up after these muppets....after today...I've had enough!!

Lock 'em up!
+ 1
 

RightCentreLeft

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Jul 22, 2010
Messages
928
There have been a few cases of negligence of drivers of such a gross nature that charges of (gross negligence) manslaughter have been succesfully prosecuted.

AG v Dunleavy (1948) is the key GNM case.
AG v Dwyer another important case.
 

spidermom

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Sep 13, 2008
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9,189
There have been a few cases of negligence of such a gross nature that charges of (gross negligence) manslaughter have been succesfully prosecuted.

AG v Dunleavy (1948) is the key case.
Thanks for that...Do not know the case...but will investigate... Thanks!
However I note...."few cases of negligence of such a gross nature"...most cases of death as a result of a drunk should surely be included in this cohort!
 

Baron von Biffo

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Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
11,485
Why do we not have this charge in Ireland?

Vehicular homicide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There are states in th US where you can serve up to 20 years for this charge!
When I googled the same in Ireland I get stories of fines and suspended sentences!


Is this another example of our lax attitiude to drink in this country.
Its a poxy indictment on us that those who recklessly murder other drivers can walk free with little more than a tap on the back of the hand!
The possibility of 20 years might teach us a lesson!
There's a strong case for charging those who kill through dangerous/illegal driving with manslaughter. I'd drop the vehicular bit as it makes it somehow less than say, someone who kills by irresponsible use of a firearm. It's in the back of my mind though that the Law Reform Commission has come out against such a change. Maybe some of the legal eagles here could tell us if that's the case and if so what the reasoning is.
 

spidermom

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9,189
There's a strong case for charging those who kill through dangerous/illegal driving with manslaughter. I'd drop the vehicular bit as it makes it somehow less than say, someone who kills by irresponsible use of a firearm. It's in the back of my mind though that the Law Reform Commission has come out against such a change. Maybe some of the legal eagles here could tell us if that's the case and if so what the reasoning is.
I wonder what was their reasoning Baron?
Agree with the point about your "weapon of choice" !

I wouldn't get off with manslaughter by sticking my meat cleaver into someone by pretending I was unaware of the consequences, so why should a lighter sentence apply when some-one drives while hammered????
 

Baron von Biffo

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I wonder what was their reasoning Baron?
Agree with the point about your "weapon of choice" !

I wouldn't get off with manslaughter by sticking my meat cleaver into someone by pretending I was unaware of the consequences, so why should a lighter sentence apply when some-one drives while hammered????
Or stoned or in a self modded car or unqualified or can't be arsed with speed limits...
 

Trampas

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Oct 30, 2007
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15,268
I wouldn't get off with manslaughter by sticking my meat cleaver into someone by pretending I was unaware of the consequences, so why should a lighter sentence apply when some-one drives while hammered????

Intent I would assume.
 

spidermom

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Or stoned or in a self modded car or unqualified or can't be arsed with speed limits...
AYE...but its the nations obsession with drink..and its excuses for partaking too much that underlines this! As we have seen of late in relation to alleged excess at high levels!
Is this why we will not tackle murder while drunk behind a wheel???

I have often wondered...in work at the weekend, bank holiday,Paddys, Christmas etc..if we could only cop on about the amount we drink...whether our current funding for the health service would be then be excessive!
And I'm not talking about the chronics...for they are everywhere in every nation...but the fractures...the stitches...the pumping stomachs of the teens...the pancreatitis....the cost of keeping them in a hospital bed until they sober up enough for treatment...!!

And not only in health..but the gardai as well..the fights...the crowd control...etc.....


Time we copped on!
 

spidermom

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9,189
Intent I would assume.
Perhaps...though smokers can no longer claim ignorance of health issues by smoking....neither can drinkers claim the excuse of ignorance while driving with drink!


there can be no-one in Ireland today today who does not know what drink driving can potentially cause!
So if you drink and drive....and crash, taking anothers life...you have prior intent...(??)
 

Newsy

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Aug 23, 2009
Messages
910
And not only in health..but the gardai as well..the fights...the crowd control...etc.....


Time we copped on!
Couldn't agree with you more.

We have a deep seated obsession with drink.....we truly are addicted..

In the last budget, it was the only item that was REDUCED......drinking was defended recently, by our political world.........drink is used as an escape from what (I'm not too sure).....but the use of drink, in this country is hugely defended......it is deep seated in our culture.

I compeletely agree with you, we truly need to cop on. We need to grow up and take responsibility for the levels of drink that are consumed in this country and get real about majorily reducing it. We need an education program for the nation, on this one.

If we won't learn, one way......perhaps we will learn another way......25 year sentences.
 

myksav

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May 13, 2008
Messages
23,546
Perhaps...though smokers can no longer claim ignorance of health issues by smoking....neither can drinkers claim the excuse of ignorance while driving with drink!


there can be no-one in Ireland today today who does not know what drink driving can potentially cause!
So if you drink and drive....and crash, taking anothers life...you have prior intent...(??)
+1
 

spidermom

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Sep 13, 2008
Messages
9,189
We need to grow up and take responsibility for the levels of drink that are consumed in this country and get real about majorily reducing it. We need an education program for the nation, on this one.

If we won't learn, one way......perhaps we will learn another way......25 year sentences.
We could have the education for years yet...Time to back it up...(??)


Might be interesting to have a poll here.
I'll go first......I once drove knowing I was over the limit....about 10 years ago...scared me sh1tless...would never ever ever attempt it again.
Since then...if I drive...I don't drink a drop!
I do however partake of the odd sherry....lest you think I'm a pioneer!
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Aug 29, 2009
Messages
6,490
There have been a few cases of negligence of drivers of such a gross nature that charges of (gross negligence) manslaughter have been succesfully prosecuted.

AG v Dunleavy (1948) is the key GNM case.
AG v Dwyer another important case.
A Road Traffic "Accident" fatality isn't even investigated with anything approaching the vigour that is given to other homicide situations.

I once heard a lawyer say bitterly, "If you ever feel that you really have to kill someone then for heaven's sake use a car and not a gun."
 

MrBananagrabber

Active member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
208
Good points all round here...

Unfortunately, a sea change in our attitude to drink is impossible given that the drink culture is condoned and fostered by our elected representatives (the FF drink-in, PJ Sheehan, the influence of the drinks/pub industry etc). I don't expect them to be teetotal, but just to show some cop on. It's galling for society at large to be lectured to, when those doing the lecturing show no inclination to practise what they preach.

If they lead, it may not solve the problem, but it at least gives a bit more credibility to the anti-drink campaigns. It's similar to the situation with the financial pain we're all meant to share...we know austerity measures are necessary, but it's hard to accept them when our politicians show no great willingness to lose their perks or cut their large salaries...where's the leadership?

I suppose there is some hope with Labour opting for teacups instead of pint glasses at their think-in...and Bertie seemed to be enjoying his cuppa in the cupboard...
 
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