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#VINB Tue 5/3/2013: State funding of private schools


Norman Bates

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Catherine Halloran, Political correspondent Irish Daily Star https://twitter.com/popcornhack
John McGuirk, PR consultant https://twitter.com/john_mcguirk
Eamonn Maloney, Lab TD Dublin South-West Eamonn Maloney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Brian Mooney, Educational Columnist The Irish Times Education Matters - Ireland's Foremost Education Periodical Education Matters » Meet Brian Mooney

The man himself returns to take back control of his show. It would appear that the reason Vinny was missing last night was that he was being presented with a Lifetime Achievement Award and a special Limerick Leader front page today.

https://twitter.com/AlanEnglish9/status/308992720012189697/photo/1

Well done Vinny. Hope it’s one of many Awards from your peers.


And tonight Vinny’s panel discuses whether the State subsidisation of fee-paying schools end?
.
The Department of Education’s 29-page report - published today - was compiled using data supplied by individual fee-charging schools.

Department’s analyses of the fee income received by Ireland's 55 private second-level schools found that the schools share more than €80m in additional income between them every year, compared with similar sized schools outside the fee-charging sector. The top nine fee-charging schools have an average disposable income of more than €2m annually, compared with schools that do not charge fees.

The report estimates the day-to-day finances of the country's private State-aided schools and suggests a sector in a healthy financial state. Fee-charging schools benefit from additional incomes of up to €4.7m each annually (between €1,300 and €8,600 per student). Should all the country's fee-charging schools decide to enter the free education sector it would cost the State €23.5m in additional funding.

Riveting stuff, and a great discussion should be on the cards for tonight‘s show …


Warning from fee-paying schools - The Irish Times - Tue, Mar 05, 2013
Warning from fee-charging schools - Independent.ie
Poll: Should the state be funding private schools? · TheJournal.ie
Call to cut State funding for fee-paying schools - RTÉ News
Top private schools average


http://www.politics.ie/forum/education-science/207388-private-schools-receive-up-seven-times-more-funding-than-schools-state-sector.html
http://www.politics.ie/forum/education-science/207378-tui-wants-future-unfunded-schools-use-state-employed-teachers-he-tripping.html
http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/206884-special-deal-teachers.html
http://www.politics.ie/forum/culture-community/178942-private-schools-private-health-theyre-not-extras.html

Paper preview:
Claire Darmody, East Coast Radio Claire Darmody - East Coast FM - Wicklow's Favourite Station
Jonathan Healy, Newstalk Lunchtime News Newstalk - Lunchtime

Previous #VINB: http://www.politics.ie/forum/backstage/207357-vinb-sam-smyth-mon-4-3-2013-disillusionment-political-system.html

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dizillusioned

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So 55 schools receive 80million of funding from the state? So thats approx 1.5 million for each school (i know certain schools received more than others).

Still with fees of 3-7K per annum per school (day) and up to 20K (boarding) assuming each school has on average 300-500 pupils (400 avg)... that would only be an increase of 3600 approx to be fully self funded... will people pay that for "exclusivity"?
 

Expose the lot of them

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So 55 schools receive 80million of funding from the state? So thats approx 1.5 million for each school (i know certain schools received more than others).

Still with fees of 3-7K per annum per school (day) and up to 20K (boarding) assuming each school has on average 300-500 pupils (400 avg)... that would only be an increase of 3600 approx to be fully self funded... will people pay that for "exclusivity"?
Most probably could not afford to, many parents make the choice between multiple foreign holidays, new cars every year and top of the range electronics and paying school fees. They have already paid their taxes to fund education, the teachers are paid from the pay paid by these parents who opt to pay extra for what they perceive to be a better education for their children.

The level of ignorance and begrudgery that crawls out from under stones at the mention of fee paying schools is breathtaking.
 

dizillusioned

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Most probably could not afford to, many parents make the choice between multiple foreign holidays, new cars every year and top of the range electronics and paying school fees. They have already paid their taxes to fund education, the teachers are paid from the pay paid by these parents who opt to pay extra for what they perceive to be a better education for their children.

The level of ignorance and begrudgery that crawls out from under stones at the mention of fee paying schools is breathtaking.
I went to the local brothers. We had the "posh" school up the road, which never seemed to beat us in the results. They obviously had Rugby, we had GAA (I hated GAA being a rugby lad). I could never understand (as a young lad) why parents would pay to go to that school. As kids we all socialised together. It seemed to be the parents that had the "image" of a better education (I won't mention the snob value here). We saw no difference as kids.

Obviously some of the boarders were wealthy (or their parents were wealthy) as the cars were much bigger than the cars in our car park on Parents day. However, in my year, there are far more "recognisable" faces in the business pages and in high profile jobs from my school than from the fee paying school. Is it worth it? For me no.

In relation to the funding of teaching salaries for these schools, I personally have no issue. These pupils would need to be accommodated in schools paid for by the tax payer anyhow, if the parents choose to pay extra, that is their option.
 

Politics matters

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Most probably could not afford to, many parents make the choice between multiple foreign holidays, new cars every year and top of the range electronics and paying school fees. They have already paid their taxes to fund education, the teachers are paid from the pay paid by these parents who opt to pay extra for what they perceive to be a better education for their children.

The level of ignorance and begrudgery that crawls out from under stones at the mention of fee paying schools is breathtaking.
Yes it is widely known that many students of Belverdere college go to school hungry in the morning:rolleyes:.........
 

Expose the lot of them

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Yes it is widely known that many students of Belverdere college go to school hungry in the morning:rolleyes:.........
Who said anything about children going hungry? I pointed out that parents make choices, some spend their money holidays and "stuff", others spend their money on school fees.

You certainly prove my point by ignorance and begrudgery.

What is always omitted from these debates is the fact that childless taxpayers are forced to pay for the education of other people's children.
 

Sister Mercedes

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In New York, some parents pay fees of $30,000 a year for Kindergarten. The rationale being that coming from a good Kindergarten gets you into a good Prep School, which will open the door to a good Middle School, that gets you into a good High School, which will get you into an Ivy League College. And all the contacts made along the way.
 
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Tin Foil Hat

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Most probably could not afford to, many parents make the choice between multiple foreign holidays, new cars every year and top of the range electronics and paying school fees. They have already paid their taxes to fund education, the teachers are paid from the pay paid by these parents who opt to pay extra for what they perceive to be a better education for their children.

The level of ignorance and begrudgery that crawls out from under stones at the mention of fee paying schools is breathtaking.
There's no two ways of looking at it. It's state subsidised elitism and should be brought to an end sooner rather than later.
 

Politics matters

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Who said anything about children going hungry? I pointed out that parents make choices, some spend their money holidays and "stuff", others spend their money on school fees.

You certainly prove my point by ignorance and begrudgery.

What is always omitted from these debates is the fact that childless taxpayers are forced to pay for the education of other people's children.
I always hear that argument without any evidence to back it up, just because George Hook is the son of a bus driver doesn't mean your average fee paying student comes from an ordinary family.

The only thing keeping this subsidy alive is our constitution, take this to a referendum and the payments will cease.
 
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tokkie

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I always here that argument without any evidence to back it up, just because George Hook is the son of a bus man doesn't mean your average fee paying student comes from an ordinary family.

The only thing keeping this subsidy alive is our constitution, take this to a referendum and the payments will cease.
But I don't think the subsidy is the real issue. Your belief that students attending fee paying schools are all aristos is the assertion he was challenging.
 

southwestkerry

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Would you prefer he ignored the topic because of his education?
When it comes to Vinny the Mannie I would prefer it myself in fact.
swk
 

Politics matters

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But I don't think the subsidy is the real issue. Your belief that students attending fee paying schools are all aristos is the assertion he was challenging.
No I am sure a minority of the students come from middle income families but it seems those in favour of the subsidy attempt to overrepresent this to favour their arguement.
 

tokkie

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No I am sure a minority of the students come from middle income families but it seems those in favour of the subsidy attempt to overrepresent this to favour their arguement.
Fair enough, when you put it like that. However I would suggest that a significant minority come from very normal middle income families.
 
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