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Volgograd to be renamed Stalingrad on anniversary of famous victory.


parentheses

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Socratus O' Pericles

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Carl Claudius

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Hitch 22

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[video=youtube;QF_fOHjWJMo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF_fOHjWJMo[/video]
 

PlanetBertie

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The Russian soldiers and citizens won the battle, Uncle Joe was miles away making his hit-list.
 

Hitch 22

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The Russian soldiers and citizens won the battle, Uncle Joe was miles away making his hit-list.
It was Stalin who made the pact with Hitler in 1939 and who refused to believe Barbarossa was imminent even going so far as shooting the messengers.
It was only when Stalin stopped interfering and released talented men who had been purged in the 1930s from the gulags to command the Red Army that it began to hit back at the Nazis and win victories.
After the war was over many officers and men of the Red Army who had fought loyally for the Rodina were sent to the gulag along with prisoners and civilians who endured years of suffering under the Nazis and partisans in all the nations in Eastern Europe who found themselves under post-war Soviet domination.
 

Elvis jaffacake

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It was Stalin who made the pact with Hitler in 1939 and who refused to believe Barbarossa was imminent even going so far as shooting the messengers.
It was only when Stalin stopped interfering an
d released talented men who had been purged in the 1930s from the gulags to command the Red Army that it began to hit back at the Nazis and win victories.
After the war was over many officers and men of the Red Army who had fought loyally for the Rodina were sent to the gulag along with prisoners and civilians who endured years of suffering under the Nazis and partisans in all the nations in Eastern Europe who found themselves under post-war Soviet domination.
They even shot a German deserter who walked over to them and told them what was about to happen....As you pointed out It was Ivan driving a T-34, Boris with PPSH SMG and Anna making rounds for boh of them in a factory who beat the Germans (along with some quality leadership who survived the purges), Uncle Joe was neither here nor there.
 

Garibaldy

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The 1939 pact only came about because the UK and France refused a deal offered to them by the USSR.

Stalin's role in WWII was a crucial one, not least in his rallying people's morale by staying in Moscow at a time when he might easily have fled.

This is a good step by the people of Volgograd remembering the single most decisive battle of the war, and what inspired Soviet success in it.
 

stopdoingstuff

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I also here they are marking the renaming by setting up the Joesph Stalin Center for Bulemia Research on the basis that no one could purge quite like Joe could.
 

Slievenaglogh

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They even shot a German deserter who walked over to them and told them what was about to happen....As you pointed out It was Ivan driving a T-34, Boris with PPSH SMG and Anna making rounds for boh of them in a factory who beat the Germans (along with some quality leadership who survived the purges), Uncle Joe was neither here nor there.
He was a baker from Berlin, a communist party member, who swam a river the night before Barbarossa. Stalin ordered that he be shot but it wasn't carried out - so I read recently in book by either Max Hastings of Ian Kershaw (cheery Xmas reading!).
 

owedtojoy

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It was Stalin who made the pact with Hitler in 1939 and who refused to believe Barbarossa was imminent even going so far as shooting the messengers.
It was only when Stalin stopped interfering and released talented men who had been purged in the 1930s from the gulags to command the Red Army that it began to hit back at the Nazis and win victories.
After the war was over many officers and men of the Red Army who had fought loyally for the Rodina were sent to the gulag along with prisoners and civilians who endured years of suffering under the Nazis and partisans in all the nations in Eastern Europe who found themselves under post-war Soviet domination.
At the same time, the Politburo had the chance to get rid of Stalin and decided not to.

The story goes that when Stalin finally realised what has Hitler was bearing down on with what seems like irresistible force, he left the Kremlin in a state of shock. "Lenin left us a great legacy, but we fcked it up" he is supposed to have said.

He departed to his dacha and fully expected to be deposed. Next day a few cars pulled up and the members of the Politburo got out. To his surprise, they asked him to come back and lead them.

Stalin was a monster, but he was the only possible leader for war-torn Russia. No one else could have forged the unity and purpose he did, even though it was through fear. He promoted the best generals, organised the evacuation of industry to the Urals and beyond, and drove his henchmen ruthlessly. His voice on the radio and his words in the newspapers rallied his country as much as Churchill's did in Britain.

Like it or not, the Russians under Stalin accomplished the bloody business of defeating the flower of the Wehrmacht and SS, reckoned to be possibly one of the best fighting forces that ever went into battle. Uncomfortable as is the thought of joining an evil man against another one, we have to deal with it.
 

Morgellons

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I also here they are marking the renaming by setting up the Joesph Stalin Center for Bulemia Research on the basis that no one could purge quite like Joe could.
Come back-you forgot your coat!

I recently saw a documentary on that city. It was a relatively new city, founded as a transport hub for oil from that region. Alfred Nobel and his brothers were key founding fathers of the city until they had a bust up and I think Alfred went home.
 

Levellers

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If Uncle Joe was alive today and stood for election in Russia - he would walk it.
 

owedtojoy

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He was a baker from Berlin, a communist party member, who swam a river the night before Barbarossa. Stalin ordered that he be shot but it wasn't carried out - so I read recently in book by either Max Hastings of Ian Kershaw (cheery Xmas reading!).
One of the most ironic stories of the war is of a German communist woman who fled Germany after the Nazis took over.

She made her way to the Soviet Union, but shortly after committed some thought crime (or maybe it was just the fact she was a foreigner), and was thrown into the Gulag during the Great Purge.

After the Nazi-Soviet Pact, she was passed by the Soviets back to the Nazis and immediately locked up in a concentration camp.

Oddly enough, she survived the war, made her way to the capitalist US (before Joe McCarthy found out!) and wrote her memoirs. I forget her name.
 

parentheses

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I wonder though is there a tendency to heap all the blame for the evils of communism on Stalin?

Surely one would have to spread the blame a bit wider than just Stalin?

Already in the early years of communism there were brutal mass murdering leaders such as Bela Kun and others

The Cheka was established before Stalin took over. I'm just saying maybe its lazy thinking to blame Stalin for everything?

[video=youtube;pRZE0MBk5DI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRZE0MBk5DI[/video]
 

Morgellons

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One of the most ironic stories of the war is of a German communist woman who fled Germany after the Nazis took over.

She made her way to the Soviet Union, but shortly after committed some thought crime (or maybe it was just the fact she was a foreigner), and was thrown into the Gulag during the Great Purge.

After the Nazi-Soviet Pact, she was passed by the Soviets back to the Nazis and immediately locked up in a concentration camp.

Oddly enough, she survived the war, made her way to the capitalist US (before Joe McCarthy found out!) and wrote her memoirs. I forget her name.
A lot of German communists headed over there. Their industrial expertise was much in demand there. That documentary I saw featured a German couple who settled in Stalingrad. When the war came the husband was 'disappeared' because he was German and not long later the wife was taken away. There was a man sent from the German embassy to get the kids back and they were sent home just before the war.
 

Mackers

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It makes sense to go back to the name it had when the battle took place. Strangely it was because it had the name in the first place that Hitler made the mistake of giving it the strategic worth it didn't have in the military sense. They would have been much better going for the oil fields than being sent to the city. It was also the case that the German army was stretched too far from the logistic angle. Luckily the Germans got exactly what they deserved. Stalingrad broke both the back and the will of the Germans. It was the turning point of the war. So the name is synonymous with the battle ergo it should be renamed.
 

parentheses

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A lot of German communists headed over there. Their industrial expertise was much in demand there. That documentary I saw featured a German couple who settled in Stalingrad. When the war came the husband was 'disappeared' because he was German and not long later the wife was taken away. There was a man sent from the German embassy to get the kids back and they were sent home just before the war.
Stalin also distrusted the Volga Germans. Shortly after the German invasion he dropped NKVD paratroops dressed as German troops into the volga German villages. Any village which failed to immediately report these "Germans" or gave them shelter, was wiped out
 

Analyzer

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One of the most ironic stories of the war is of a German communist woman who fled Germany after the Nazis took over.

She made her way to the Soviet Union, but shortly after committed some thought crime (or maybe it was just the fact she was a foreigner), and was thrown into the Gulag during the Great Purge.

After the Nazi-Soviet Pact, she was passed by the Soviets back to the Nazis and immediately locked up in a concentration camp.

Oddly enough, she survived the war, made her way to the capitalist US (before Joe McCarthy found out!) and wrote her memoirs. I forget her name.
Well, good to see that eventually they discovered the difference between the model of a society dominated by concepts of a powerful state, and a society dominated by concepts of liberty.
 

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