Von Mises on the merits of Fascism...

SevenStars

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When libertarians talk about liberty they mean property rights and other freedoms can easily be sacraficed by them in order to protect those (LewRockwell the main libertarian website features a columnist who openly boasts about his volunteering from the USA for the "Rhodesian" Army and of course Gary North who wants the death penalty for adultery)....Here is the admiration of the main theorist of the "Austrian" school on fascism..."Enjoy"...

"It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history...."

Mises and the “Merit” of Fascism sans everything
 


Cael

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I really dont see any logic to the theories of Von Mises. It seems to be based on some kind of distributist ideas, but he doesnt talk, as far as I know, about how you would get from the current position of corporate monopoly to a system of small producers and something near perfect competition. How will the monopolies be broken up? Will their resources and lands be taken off them by force and distributed to the people? How else could these small producers emerge?
 

SevenStars

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I really dont see any logic to the theories of Von Mises. It seems to be based on some kind of distributist ideas, but he doesnt talk, as far as I know, about how you would get from the current position of corporate monopoly to a system of small producers and something near perfect competition. How will the monopolies be broken up? Will their resources and lands be taken off them by force and distributed to the people? How else could these small producers emerge?
Actually they regard Distributism as a form of socialism. :confused:

What's Wrong with "Distributism" - Thomas E. Woods, Jr. - Mises Daily
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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When libertarians talk about liberty they mean property rights and other freedoms can easily be sacraficed by them in order to protect those (LewRockwell the main libertarian website features a columnist who openly boasts about his volunteering from the USA for the "Rhodesian" Army and of course Gary North who wants the death penalty for adultery)....Here is the admiration of the main theorist of the "Austrian" school on fascism..."Enjoy"...

"It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history...."

Mises and the “Merit” of Fascism sans everything
Nice propaganda there. The feudal elite would be pleased with you.

This unknown credentialless blogger you linked failed to mention that Ludwig Von Mises had to leave Europe in fear of his life from Fascism and Nazism in 1940 and move to America.

Also fails to mention that himself and Rothbard were also anti Zionist and anti corporate - state which is also a form of Fascism.

Support for Pinochet?

Can you provide links for that? I can show you plenty were the Von Mises institute has written lots of papers with criticism and indeed contempt for Friedman and the Chicago School.
 

Cael

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oceanclub

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This unknown credentialless blogger you linked failed to mention that Ludwig Von Mises had to leave Europe in fear of his life from Fascism and Nazism in 1940 and move to America.
This ignores the fact that someone Jewish in 1930s Europe could well have been sympathetic to Fascism, but knew that Hitler's version of Fascism involved murdering them.

P.
 

Cael

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This ignores the fact that someone Jewish in 1930s Europe could well have been sympathetic to Fascism, but knew that Hitler's version of Fascism involved murdering them.

P.
The Rothschild family knew that, but still funded the rise of the Nazi Party through their company I.G. Farben.
 

SevenStars

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This ignores the fact that someone Jewish in 1930s Europe could well have been sympathetic to Fascism, but knew that Hitler's version of Fascism involved murdering them.

P.
Actually we are talking about Mussolini who had many jewish admirers and supporters from the beginning of his movement and up to the time when he finally made an alliance with Hitler (remember that they were enemies for a good period, and that Hitler overthrew a fascist regieme allied with Italy when he invade Austria).
 

Fides

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So, then the question is even more stark. How does Von Mises and his followers see the corporate monopolies being broken up?
I sort of agree with you (shockingly), I do believe that one of the problems with the current version of capitalism is that the corporates get too large and effectively become monopolies. And any type of monopoly (public or private) is bad news. They make bad decisions, waste money and become detached from the market they are supposed to serve. The people at the top are ridiculously overpaid and they too become detached from the real world.

Small businesses can set up and flourish but once they become even a tiny threat to the big corporates they get bought out - good news for the owners of the small businesses, not good news for the market.
 

SevenStars

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So, then the question is even more stark. How does Von Mises and his followers see the corporate monopolies being broken up?
Through "freeing the market" would you believe?
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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This ignores the fact that someone Jewish in 1930s Europe could well have been sympathetic to Fascism, but knew that Hitler's version of Fascism involved murdering them.

P.
Well then I'll go and check out if he was sympathetic to Fascism in the 30s. But certainly anything I read from him and the people I know who follow the school are not in anyway linked to fascism.

There is a lot of disinformation out there. During the Reagan administration Rothbard was labelled a Communist. Anything that is anti state is going to pick up dogs abuse and lies and smears.

But I will impartially check this out, because if its true, it would annoy and disappoint and shock me deeply.
 

SevenStars

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The Rothschild family knew that, but still funded the rise of the Nazi Party through their company I.G. Farben.
Lets get things in persecptive...Dolfuss and Mussolini were fascists but they were not German National Socialists who had a distinctive and more demonic atavistic programme. If you honestly believe that private ownership of the means of production and distribution is the basis of civilization than Von Mises' views there make perfect sense. Its just the blather and hypocracy of the likes of Cassandra that I cant stand.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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So, then the question is even more stark. How does Von Mises and his followers see the corporate monopolies being broken up?
I mention that on the other thread. On a level playing field, people can compete against them.
 

Cael

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SevenStars

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Well then I'll go and check out if he was sympathetic to Fascism in the 30s. But certainly anything I read from him and the people I know who follow the school are not in anyway linked to fascism.
.
Oh come now....Garry North ring a bell?

What about Paul Gottfried???
 

Cael

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I mention that on the other thread. On a level playing field, people can compete against them.
What do you mean by a level playing field? How can someone with a few euro and no land compete with the likes of Microsoft or Sony?
 

SevenStars

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Is that not what the neo-liberals say?
Neo-liberals believe in "corporate welfare" and dont have an issue with things like the gold standard.
 

SevenStars

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Well then I'll go and check out if he was sympathetic to Fascism in the 30s. But certainly anything I read from him and the people I know who follow the school are not in anyway linked to fascism.
.
Lecture from the Von Mises Insitute about how Fascism wasnt that bad...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXhkJHjO0Qo]YouTube - Fascism, Anti-Fascism, and the Welfare State [Paul Gottfried][/ame]
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Lets get things in persecptive...Dolfuss and Mussolini were fascists but they were not German National Socialists who had a distinctive and more demonic atavistic programme. If you honestly believe that private ownership of the means of production and distribution is the basis of civilization than Von Mises' views there make perfect sense. Its just the blather and hypocracy of the likes of Cassandra that I cant stand.
Thanks for that. You make everything sound so simplistic.

So did you ever earn interest? Ever win on a horse? Ever buy something and sell it on? No?

You think you can mimic the market? You think you know everyones value of marginal utility? You think you know whats best for everyone? Do you want to control people?
 

Cael

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Thanks for that. You make everything sound so simplistic.

So did you ever earn interest? Ever win on a horse? Ever buy something and sell it on? No?

You think you can mimic the market? You think you know everyones value of marginal utility? You think you know whats best for everyone? Do you want to control people?
It doesnt matter a damn really if Von Mises was a fascist or not. He could still have had some views that are correct. But, I dont see that his economic views are correct, or have any logic at all. You need to explain to us what you mean by having a "level playing field." What is it, and how are you going to get that while massive corporations still exist?
 


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