Vote for career politicians: the real independents

statsman

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In an article in the New Statesman, Raphael Heuwieser of Oxford University outlines the findings of research he is about to publish in the Legislative Studies Quarterly on MP voting patterns. The core finding is summed up as:

...amongst government backbenchers who have never held a ministerial post, a non-career politician is estimated to rebel in only about 20 votes per parliament. By contrast, a career politician dissents more than twice as often — a substantial difference considering the high party unity in Westminster.
That's career politicians, you know, the ones who've never had a real job and just act as backbench cannon fodder. Now, the popular perception is that politics is dominated by these servile wasters, so it's also interesting to note that only 20% of Westminster MPs are actually career politicians; the other 80% are people like former banker Mat and former journalist BoJo, the people who've done such a splendid job of steering the country on to the rocks of a likely hard Brexit.

Given the shambles that these people have led and the complete mess that 'successful businessman' Donald Trump has made of the Oval Office, I'm thinking we need more career politicians, not fewer.

Want an independent-minded MP? Vote for a career politician
 


Analyzer

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Statistman created a thread to bailout politicians with no experience outside of politics.

The category that includes Brian Cowen, all the Lenihans, the Aherns, Meehaul, Howlin, etc. are the inferred answer.
 

Casablanca

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I remember a friend, on Trump's election, saying that "at least he's not a politician".
It struck me that one would never call for a person who "at least he's not a plumber" when the pipe bursts or suggest that that the person about to remove your appendix "at least she's not a doctor".
 

Sister Mercedes

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A politician should not be a lifetime career job. Do something in the world, then enter politics to make a public contribution, then go back into the world and let someone else make a public contribution. That was how the people who founded the US thought about politics.
 

Levellers

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Statistman created a thread to bailout politicians with no experience outside of politics.

The category that includes Brian Cowen, all the Lenihans, the Aherns, Meehaul, Howlin, etc. are the inferred answer.
I'll have you know De Bert was an accountant who passed some of his exams to be a wages clerk.
 

Sister Mercedes

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There used to be a choice. If you wanted to make a lot of money, you went into business. If you didn't care about money but wanted to do stuff in public life you entered politics.

Nowadays you have people who've been in public life their entire careers but have built vast fortunes out of it. The Clinton's, Al Gore, Harry Reid and his family etc. In an Irish context, the likes of Michael D Higgins and hordes of Labour Party apparatchiks.
 

Sister Mercedes

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I think we ask too much of our politicians. Guiding legislation through parliament, holding government ministers to account, formulating policy and running government departments. Those are very different jobs, but we're expecting the same people to be able to do each, armed only with a H Dip or a publican's license. Let's get more people from outside politics into the cabinet. People who have experience in directing projects and getting stuff done.
 

statsman

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Statistman created a thread to bailout politicians with no experience outside of politics.

The category that includes Brian Cowen, all the Lenihans, the Aherns, Meehaul, Howlin, etc. are the inferred answer.
Statsman creates a thread to highlight some interesting statistical analysis of Westminster MPs' actual behaviour. As usual, your response lacks analysis. If you have data that contradicts anything in the OP or linked article, than please share. If, on the other hand, all you have is your preconception and the data runs counter to that preconception, it might just be that the data is more reliable.
 

statsman

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A politician should not be a lifetime career job. Do something in the world, then enter politics to make a public contribution, then go back into the world and let someone else make a public contribution. That was how the people who founded the US thought about politics.
And look at the ************************up they made of it.
 

Sister Mercedes

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And look at the ************************up they made of it.
The United States 1775-2017, the greatest nation in the history of the planet, and you think its a f*** up.

From your vantage point in the only country in the world with a lower population than it had 300 years ago.
 

statsman

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The United States 1775-2017, the greatest nation in the history of the planet, and you think its a f*** up.

From your vantage point in the only country in the world with a lower population than it had 300 years ago.
Despite promising 'all men created equal', they had a civil war around slavery, they still don't have universal franchise and one of their main political parties dedicates huge effort to removing voting rights on large groups of citizens. Abroad, they regularly undermine legally constituted governments they don't approve of. Plus they are increasingly the disunited states, both along federal/local lines and the rich/poor divide. Apart from that, they're grand, I suppose.
 

gleeful

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Id like to know what proportion of the 'career politician' sample group in this study are ultra-toff Tory MPs who vote against anything with 'Europe' in the title.

I would guess its most of them. Corbyn alone probably accounts for another large chunk of rebellions by career politicians.
 

statsman

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Id like to know what proportion of the 'career politician' sample group in this study are ultra-toff Tory MPs who vote against anything with 'Europe' in the title.

I would guess its most of them. Corbyn alone probably accounts for another large chunk of rebellions by career politicians.
Ultra Toff Tories tend to not be career politicians.
 

Burnout

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I have a life.
I remember a friend, on Trump's election, saying that "at least he's not a politician".
It struck me that one would never call for a person who "at least he's not a plumber" when the pipe bursts or suggest that that the person about to remove your appendix "at least she's not a doctor".
But the plumber or doctor know their trade. The gombeen politico has a whole dept to clean up the mess (if possible) afterwards. A whole dept of plumbers mates do not come to your house.
 

statsman

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But the plumber or doctor know their trade. The gombeen politico has a whole dept to clean up the mess (if possible) afterwards. A whole dept of plumbers mates do not come to your house.
Well, I think Trump has finally put to bed that notion that business people would inevitably do a better job.
 
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Well, I think Trump has finally put to bed that notion that business people would inevitably do a better job.
I think that the labyrinthine nature of the US system makes the job of president all but impossible for someone who was not reared in the system. The last few POTUS all had experience in the political system.

Trump has made sufficiently basic errors to indicate that he had zero idea of the intricacies of the job.
 

statsman

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I think that the labyrinthine nature of the US system makes the job of president all but impossible for someone who was not reared in the system. The last few POTUS all had experience in the political system.

Trump has made sufficiently basic errors to indicate that he had zero idea of the intricacies of the job.
Imagine needing experience to do a good job; whoda thunk it?
 


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