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Vote on Palestinian UN membership


Clanrickard

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Apr 25, 2008
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This thread is for discussing this bid which comes up on November 29th as opposed to Gaza operations. There will be a vote of the symbolic date of November 29th in the General Assembly. The Palestinians claim they have 150 of the 191 votes in the bag and the vote is likely to sail through. The US is certain to veto it in the Security Council

The thinking of Lieberamn is spelled out in this link with the segment below being the stand out segment........

Israel Heightens Warnings Over Palestinians? U.N. Bid - NYTimes.com

A second document, an internal paper labeled “draft” and written by staff members of Israel’s hard-line foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, was more explicit. It described Mr. Abbas as an unpopular, weakened leader who had grown rich from leading a corrupt authority and was heading to the United Nations in a last-ditch effort to remain in power.

A recognition of Palestinian statehood by the United Nations, it stated, would leave Israel no alternative but to topple “the government of Abu Mazen,” referring to Mr. Abbas by his nickname. Any softer reaction would be interpreted as “raising a white flag,” it said.
The security council will meet on Monday to discuss the issue. France, Russia and China say they will back the bid. The US are against I am not sure about the UK. The US is going to be increasingly isolated if they veto if they veto. The Saudi Ambassador said .........

Saudi Arabia would no longer be able to cooperate with America in the same way it historically has. The special relationship increasingly would be seen as toxic by the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims, who demand justice for the Palestinian people.
Even they veto full membership the GA can go and vote for a status similar to the Vatican which a non-member state. I see no good reason for either Israel or the US blocking this bid. It will concentrate minds in the negotiations that must take place. It forces both Israel and Palestine to to try and adhere closer to international norms. The threat of a quick trip to the ICC might make some people think twice before reaching for their guns. We can go round and round the mulberry bush but we come back to two realities. The Palestinians must accept Israel is there to stay and they must recognize this fact and 3.5 million Palestinians must have their own state.
 


southwestkerry

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Aug 20, 2008
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Well clan slow response to this news insofar. My my two pennies worth if it works I suspect hamas well need to do a SF and renounce terror.
 

onlyasking

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Dec 19, 2008
Messages
5,735
This thread is for discussing this bid which comes up on November 29th as opposed to Gaza operations. There will be a vote of the symbolic date of November 29th in the General Assembly. The Palestinians claim they have 150 of the 191 votes in the bag and the vote is likely to sail through. The US is certain to veto it in the Security Council

The thinking of Lieberamn is spelled out in this link with the segment below being the stand out segment........

Israel Heightens Warnings Over Palestinians? U.N. Bid - NYTimes.com



The security council will meet on Monday to discuss the issue. France, Russia and China say they will back the bid. The US are against I am not sure about the UK. The US is going to be increasingly isolated if they veto if they veto. The Saudi Ambassador said .........



Even they veto full membership the GA can go and vote for a status similar to the Vatican which a non-member state. I see no good reason for either Israel or the US blocking this bid. It will concentrate minds in the negotiations that must take place. It forces both Israel and Palestine to to try and adhere closer to international norms. The threat of a quick trip to the ICC might make some people think twice before reaching for their guns. We can go round and round the mulberry bush but we come back to two realities. The Palestinians must accept Israel is there to stay and they must recognize this fact and 3.5 million Palestinians must have their own state.
The USA has been providing political, financial and moral blank cheques for Israel over the last, eh 64 years, with the exception of Eisenhower's administration. The more Israel expands, the more willing the moral cowards elected by Americans are to go along with that expansion.

There is simply no amount of vacuous waffle that an Israeli ally like Saudi Arabia can issue, or anyone else for that matter, which will change that. Stop pretending, or stop fooling yourself.

Israel, the USA, the EU and the rest of the so-called international 'community' demand that Palestinians recognise Israel's right to exist and cease engaging in violence.

Meanwhile, their Israeli friends continue to use violence to steal more and more land from what the above list of moral cowards pretends will be the home of a 'viable' Palestinian state.

The hypocrisy is astounding on one level, but guaranteed on another. This will not change.

Israel will never take the first step towards recognition of the right of a Palestinian state to exist - the cessation of continuing expansion onto the lands of that state. They have for years continued to use violence to ensure that expansion.

Nothing to see here. The land of the Palestinians shrinks day to day and year to year, accompanied by the shrill demands of Israel's friends that those being dispossessed recognise the state engaged in that dispossession, and that they cease violence against those using violence to expand territories for the use of Jews and Jews alone.

You've got to hand it to the Israelis - they are quite adept at getting exactly what they want. Then again, when you've got the perpetual yes-men of the USA and the lamentable EU behind you, it's not difficult.
 

onlyasking

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Dec 19, 2008
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Well clan slow response to this news insofar. My my two pennies worth if it works I suspect hamas well need to do a SF and renounce terror.
Any chance Israel will "renounce terror"?

Perhaps you have a different understanding of what "terror" means.
 

Keith-M

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www.allkindsofeverything.ie
If the UN is not going to allow Kosovo, a country with undisputed borders but disputed sovereignty they would certainly not allow a member that has neither.
 

Dame_Enda

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Dec 14, 2011
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UN status will not happen but non-member status likely will. Israel is terrified even this will allow the ICC to investigate their war-crimes against the Palestinians, according to off the record briefings by Israeli ministers to the press. Ireland and the EU should support Palestine in both votes. No doubt the Zionist lobby could in the EU and the govt's sucking up to the Germans may prevent this. Thankfully the Zionist lobby is weak in the developing world as many are former colonies are therefore empathise with the Palestininians.
 

james toney

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Just another crusty thread dissing Israel.

Move on, back up there, nothing to see here..
It's a valid and interesting OP,and anyway John,you are a mixture of Amusement and Annoyance, so no one takes your words seriously on any thread.
 

Lain2016

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Mar 1, 2011
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Well clan slow response to this news insofar. My my two pennies worth if it works I suspect hamas well need to do a SF and renounce terror.
Hamas could renounce Israel terror...same way as SF renounced brit terror...is that what you mean :confused:
 

former wesleyan

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Nov 29, 2009
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Very Interesting article about the future of Israel here.

The Archdruid Report
What it boils down to though, is a statement about the absolute dependence of Israel on America. As far as I can tell it's two-way traffic with the Israelis upgrading and innovating.
 

wombat

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Jun 16, 2007
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P.ie thread on a U.N. vote - the absurd worrying about the ridiculous.
 

former wesleyan

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Hamas could renounce Israel terror...same way as SF renounced brit terror...is that what you mean :confused:
Day ago you were dishing out "likes" like snuff at a wake to a poster who ended up tonight posting a desire to make soap out of Jews. You're clueless.
 

eskrimador

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Sep 17, 2009
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What do you mean by "crusty"?

"Just another" dumbassed and infantile post from John Biffo. Stupid-spamming again John.
Zionista tactic #1, discredit the bringer of bad news.

Good to see that zionista tactic #2 has died a death, call people ant semites. Must have finally sussed that it has the wrong effect.

ER. the vote. I'd put it off to January, when Hilary Clinton is gone and Obama is sworn back in.
 

Oscar Wilde

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Fatah is forced to make this move, as all their hoop-jumping has been met with humiliation by Israel,
in other words, they have received nothing for their peace-building

Of course the worry is that further humiliation will be visited upon the west bank via Israel
in the form of financial sanctions should they go ahead with the UN vote.
 

Oscar Wilde

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Zionista tactic #1, discredit the bringer of bad news.

Good to see that zionista tactic #2 has died a death, call people ant semites. Must have finally sussed that it has the wrong effect.

ER. the vote. I'd put it off to January, when Hilary Clinton is gone and Obama is sworn back in.
yes esk we really have won that debate on anti-zionism does NOT equal anti-semitism

lies and propaganda dismantled piece by piece is the way to go

anyone want to fast forward read or watch on youtube anything by
norman finkelstein .... he is IMHO the best scalper of Zions Lies/Crimes/Terror
 

eskrimador

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yes esk we really have won that debate on anti-zionism does NOT equal anti-semitism

lies and propaganda dismantled piece by piece is the way to go

anyone want to fast forward read or watch on youtube anything by
norman finkelstein .... he is IMHO the best scalper of Zions Lies/Crimes/Terror
Finkelstein let's emotions get the better of him too often. I prefer the calm way Chomsky lays things out.
 

eskrimador

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Sep 17, 2009
Messages
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Fatah is forced to make this move, as all their hoop-jumping has been met with humiliation by Israel,
in other words, they have received nothing for their peace-building

Of course the worry is that further humiliation will be visited upon the west bank via Israel
in the form of financial sanctions should they go ahead with the UN vote.
Like we needed Wikileaks to tell us but Abbas and his cronies are as bent as Bill Clinton's knob
 

Oscar Wilde

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Finkelstein let's emotions get the better of him too often. I prefer the calm way Chomsky lays things out.
sure, I forgive norman for emotion as he's lost all his relatives in death camps
but I respect the way he refuses to play the holocaust card

the other thing is norman fink covers precisely Israel and Palestine
chomsky covers just about anything and everything , being so brilliant
 

Clanrickard

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Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,980
Just another crusty thread dissing Israel.

Move on, back up there, nothing to see here..
Yeah John I hate Israel as we all know.

UN status will not happen but non-member status likely will. Israel is terrified even this will allow the ICC to investigate their war-crimes against the Palestinians,
It will also mean that the Palestinians can likewise investigated.
 

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