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Wage rates on Metro at market rates or at artificial trade union rates?


patslatt

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Apr 11, 2007
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It looks like the Dublin Metro project will go ahead on the basis that capital city airports must have prestigious rail links to the city centres for the sake of national pride,even if frequent airport coaches running on bus lanes would do.

Given that Metro will go ahead,will the contract be at a fixed price or will it allow costs to spiral upwards on cost plus as happens on many public sector projects? In this regard,a key concern is wage determination. Will contractors and subcontractors be paying depressed market wages now prevalent in construction or will they be forced to pay artificial Celtic Tiger wages on redundant trade union contracts? Brian Cowen claims that lower construction costs will give better value for money on the government's reduced capital spending budget. Is he right?
 

making waves

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Will contractors and subcontractors be paying depressed market wages now prevalent in construction or will they be forced to pay artificial Celtic Tiger wages on redundant trade union contracts? Brian Cowen claims that lower construction costs will give better value for money on the government's reduced capital spending budget. Is he right?
Maybe we should go back to GAMA rates of €2.20 an hour.
 

wombat

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32,039
Will contractors and subcontractors be paying depressed market wages now prevalent in construction or will they be forced to pay artificial Celtic Tiger wages on redundant trade union contracts?
It will be a long time before we see Tiger rates in the construction industry. Wage rates are the last thing we need to worry about when discussing White Elephants or any colour elephants for that matter.
 

bobbysands81

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Nov 3, 2005
Messages
947
It looks like the Dublin Metro project will go ahead on the basis that capital city airports must have prestigious rail links to the city centres for the sake of national pride,even if frequent airport coaches running on bus lanes would do.

Given that Metro will go ahead,will the contract be at a fixed price or will it allow costs to spiral upwards on cost plus as happens on many public sector projects? In this regard,a key concern is wage determination. Will contractors and subcontractors be paying depressed market wages now prevalent in construction or will they be forced to pay artificial Celtic Tiger wages on redundant trade union contracts? Brian Cowen claims that lower construction costs will give better value for money on the government's reduced capital spending budget. Is he right?
You still never answered the question as to whether or not you're a tax dodger?
 

patslatt

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Tell that to the Electricians' union

It will be a long time before we see Tiger rates in the construction industry. Wage rates are the last thing we need to worry about when discussing White Elephants or any colour elephants for that matter.
 

patslatt

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Physical force man?

You still never answered the question as to whether or not you're a tax dodger?
That's called a leading question,as in "Do you beat up your wife/girlfriend?" Now a partly leading one for you,given that you use the name Bobby Sands:are you now or have you ever been a member of a physical force Irish nationalist movement?
 

Eirmail

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Feb 14, 2008
Messages
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The employees will be paid the trade union rates, but who knows what rates these will be for the duration of the building of the metro.
 

Baron von Biffo

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May 16, 2007
Messages
11,494
Maybe we should go back to GAMA rates of €2.20 an hour.
That's the sort of profligacy that has this country banjaxed. In my day we worked for a bowl of gruel and brought our own bowl. The ones with families would pour half the bowl into the turn-ups of their trousers to bring it home for the kids. Damn glad of it we were too.
 

patslatt

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Not a choice of extremes

That's the sort of profligacy that has this country banjaxed. In my day we worked for a bowl of gruel and brought our own bowl. The ones with families would pour half the bowl into the turn-ups of their trousers to bring it home for the kids. Damn glad of it we were too.
The choice is not between extremes of wages below minimum wages,and artificial Celtic Tiger wages which are only paid on very big unionised projects.
 

controller

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Feb 25, 2009
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3,176
Companies would have put in tenders based on certain rates. These are the rates that will be paid. The only way around this is if the contractors start putting in large claims for disruption etc. That is one way to get extra money to pay higher rates
 

making waves

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19,190
The choice is not between extremes of wages below minimum wages,and artificial Celtic Tiger wages which are only paid on very big unionised projects.
Hate to tell you this pat - all state projects are carried out by unionised workforces - GAMA was even unionised, the only problem was that the workers didn't know they were in a union.
 

Pax

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Joined
Feb 12, 2004
Messages
265
It looks like the Dublin Metro project will go ahead on the basis that capital city airports must have prestigious rail links to the city centres for the sake of national pride,even if frequent airport coaches running on bus lanes would do.

Given that Metro will go ahead,will the contract be at a fixed price or will it allow costs to spiral upwards on cost plus as happens on many public sector projects? In this regard,a key concern is wage determination. Will contractors and subcontractors be paying depressed market wages now prevalent in construction or will they be forced to pay artificial Celtic Tiger wages on redundant trade union contracts? Brian Cowen claims that lower construction costs will give better value for money on the government's reduced capital spending budget. Is he right?
Two points. First on your use of "artificial"

In a market economy wages are determined by bargaining power. If workers have no, or limited, bargaining power in comparison to the owners of business, then you have what the market will drive down to. Or the, {sic} "non-artificial" wage rate.

Patslatt, why do you not call the use of such bargaining power, artificial - when it is used soley by business unions ?

Second point, on the costs going up of public projects.

These are the public projects put out under PPPs yeah? Need I explain why the vast bulk of such excess spending on everything from toll-roads, to schools, hospitals, etc cost much more because of the neoliberal PPP system?
 

Pax

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Feb 12, 2004
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The choice is not between extremes of wages below minimum wages,and artificial Celtic Tiger wages which are only paid on very big unionised projects.
No its not. That's a constricted spectrum of remuneration.

Tell me patslatt, how much should the contractors and subcontractors be paid? How much should they earn? And why, should they earn more than the wage slaves they employ?
 

davehiggz

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May 7, 2009
Messages
1,116
Construction workers will be delighted to get any job, especially an exciting new project like the metro, (more interesting than house extensions!). I say offer them the market rate and if they decline they're free to deny the work and leave it for someone else. The country gets its infrastructure, the tax payer gets value for money and dignity is given to construction workers. Why pay these people enormous rates of pay when they're happy be getting the job in the first place?
 

Pax

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Feb 12, 2004
Messages
265
Construction workers will be delighted to get any job, especially an exciting new project like the metro, (more interesting than house extensions!). I say offer them the market rate and if they decline they're free to deny the work and leave it for someone else. The country gets its infrastructure, the tax payer gets value for money and dignity is given to construction workers. Why pay these people enormous rates of pay when they're happy be getting the job in the first place?

Not surprising really from a fan of Blair and the war in Iraq. Only 100,000 eh? Scum

Judging Blair | David Higgins
 

Pauli

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Sep 22, 2006
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1,181
That's called a leading question,as in "Do you beat up your wife/girlfriend?" Now a partly leading one for you,given that you use the name Bobby Sands:are you now or have you ever been a member of a physical force Irish nationalist movement?
If you are going down that road, at least get the leading question right. It's "Do you still beat your wife/girlfriend?"
 

wombat

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Jun 16, 2007
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32,039
Why pay these people enormous rates of pay when they're happy be getting the job in the first place?
As someone who is familiar with current pay rates in construction and also what they are likely to be, I can burst that bubble - rates have fallen and will fall further and they were never enormous to begin with - people earned big money through working long hours and getting bonuses. Its silly arguing about something that will not happen. More to the point, there are far more urgent needs for govt. spending, even in the construction sector, than metro.
 

cry freedom

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Nov 8, 2009
Messages
2,400
If they do go ahead with this piece of empire building I hope that the architects keep brickwork to a minimum. If the don't, our own home grown brand of la Cosa Nostra, namely the Dublin Bricklayers Union will be looking for their special brand of protection money.
 
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