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Walking away from a bad mortgage: can it be done?


yehbut_nobut

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
523
I'm not saying it's right, but hypothetically, could this work?

When banks and Building Soc's start ramping up their interest payments could people who want to get off the mortgage merry-go-round walk away?

If banks were not being fully honest or open* about their financial situation at the time of drawing the mortgage, customers might argue that they should not now be expected to pay what is in effect an interest premium on the banks poor lending policy, which was concealed at the time of taking the mortgage.

In effect, the lender made it impossible for the borrower to know the true extent of their financial health or otherwise. If an informed decision ("do I want to deal with this company?") is impossible, does that nulify the contract?


(*for example, in its last annual report EBS only had property loans of €512 million on its books, however it seems they are now seeking to transfer loans of €750-800 million to NAMA.)
 

seanmacc

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Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
1,022
Possible but I would imagine it would take a team of 100 solicitors about 20 years to win the case. The banks and building societies would not let it go easy
 
Joined
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Messages
22,911
The status of the lender is irrelevant and anybody relying on that better save up the cardboard boxes.

Lender lent you money and you signed your consent.
 

disgruntledcitizen

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Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
405
in some countries you can simply hand back the keys and walk away, its called jingle mail, however here your are still liable for the total sum borrowed and will be pursued by the banks / lenders for same....

the only way it seems to get out of repaying debts is for them to be in the millions or billions of debt then it seems possible....

its only the small man that gets screwed :(
 

fergalr

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Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
354
in some countries you can simply hand back the keys and walk away, its called jingle mail, however here your are still liable for the total sum borrowed and will be pursued by the banks / lenders for same....

the only way it seems to get out of repaying debts is for them to be in the millions or billions of debt then it seems possible....

its only the small man that gets screwed :(
Agreed about the little man being fukucked. I've heard of Americans posting their keys back alright.
 

cactusflower

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Oct 1, 2008
Messages
1,285
People sometimes post keys in through the doors of the mortgage company and hop it. They are essentially on the run for the debt and will never have a usable credit rating again. Emigration is often part of the package.
 
Joined
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22,911
And this poster totally ignores the point made!
Wrong, stating the fact that the financial position of the lender is of no relevance for the borrower is the correct position.

Borrower has an option after any tie in period of leaving the lender and going elsewhere.

A full schedule of terms and conditions were provided to borrower and their solicitor, they consented to the terms.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,911
People sometimes post keys in through the doors of the mortgage company and hop it. They are essentially on the run for the debt and will never have a usable credit rating again. Emigration is often part of the package.
Given the nature of the whole financial services industry running away doesn't mean you get away with it as am aware of judgements on debt being implemented against someone who lived in Malta and this was pre their EU entry.

Banks and CC companies have worldwide data as many Aussie's who skipped back home have found to their cost.
 

lapsedmethodist

Active member
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
143
Post the keys through the lenders letterbox. Transfer any funds you have into someone elses name. Rent. Ask your boss can you go contract. If so, buy an off the shelf co. and bill your employer. You become a straw man and the finance companies can chase you all they want.
 

johnfás

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Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,727
Can't officially be done... if you attempt it the bank will seize the property, sell it and you will still be liable for the remainder of the debt. The bank will seek and gain a judgement against you for remaining debt and you will be liable unto death for that debt. One could declare bankruptcy, but natually that will ensure you never receive a loan again, will bar you from acting as a company director and a host of other unsavoury restrictions. The only way to remove yourself from a position of bankruptcy is to pay off one's debts. One could of course try to pull a runner, but as has been alluded to above, a foreign court, as does an Irish court, has the discretion to enforce the judgement of a court from another jurisdiction against a party who is within the jurisdiction of the court.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,911
Post the keys through the lenders letterbox. Transfer any funds you have into someone elses name. Rent. Ask your boss can you go contract. If so, buy an off the shelf co. and bill your employer. You become a straw man and the finance companies can chase you all they want.
Or they can hit you with bankruptcy if they feel you trying to get around system and a bankrupt can not be a director of a company.
 

yehbut_nobut

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
523
lads and lasses- in fairness I wasn't really looking for ideas or ways and means that it might be done, merely to ask if the concealment of a significant material fact could be a factor in negating the mortgage contract?
 

Dios

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
318
lads and lasses- in fairness I wasn't really looking for ideas or ways and means that it might be done, merely to ask if the concealment of a significant material fact could be a factor in negating the mortgage contract?
The question to ask would be whether the facts concealed were of material significance to your contract with the company, so generally no.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,911
lads and lasses- in fairness I wasn't really looking for ideas or ways and means that it might be done, merely to ask if the concealment of a significant material fact could be a factor in negating the mortgage contract?
Didn't believe you were but putting the info that will get thrown back well before you get to court.
 

Arcadius

Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
18
If it was possible the law would be changed.
As the government has decided to prop up the banks at any cost, any money borrowers don't cough up will just be taken from taxpayers' pockets.
One way or another we'll all be bled white.

I almost wish it was down to government corruption - that might be less scary than incompetence on this scale.
 

diablo

Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
86
Post the keys through the lenders letterbox. Transfer any funds you have into someone elses name. Rent. Ask your boss can you go contract. If so, buy an off the shelf co. and bill your employer. You become a straw man and the finance companies can chase you all they want.
No papist would do something so sneaky
 

jimmyfour

Active member
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
195
I'm not saying it's right, but hypothetically, could this work?

When banks and Building Soc's start ramping up their interest payments could people who want to get off the mortgage merry-go-round walk away?

If banks were not being fully honest or open* about their financial situation at the time of drawing the mortgage, customers might argue that they should not now be expected to pay what is in effect an interest premium on the banks poor lending policy, which was concealed at the time of taking the mortgage.

In effect, the lender made it impossible for the borrower to know the true extent of their financial health or otherwise. If an informed decision ("do I want to deal with this company?") is impossible, does that nulify the contract?


(*for example, in its last annual report EBS only had property loans of €512 million on its books, however it seems they are now seeking to transfer loans of €750-800 million to NAMA.)
I am lol'ing at this :)

The banks might easily say that they had the true extent of the customers financial health withheld if people who agreed to pay with the terms of the contract turned out not to be able. The difference is that the banks were not borrowing off the customer; the customer wanted the banks money and agreed to it's terms. How financially healthy a bank is therefore none of the customer's business and it's up to the customer to pick, as always, a reputable safe bank.
 

RabHab

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
2
Hi All,

I think the original post is a very interesting one and one which deserves more discussion. On a similar type of issue i was wondering if any of you have any experience on contract law? There doesnt seem to be much about it online.

The reason i ask is with regards to the practice of the banks in recent years, in particular the fractional reserve system of conducting business which allowed them to created money out of nothing.

When you take out a bank load, mortgage etc, under contract law both parties need to put up consideration which i interpret as anything of value promised to another when making a contract. It can take the form of money, physical objects, services, promised actions etc

My question is, if you were to stick to the rigid letter of the law how could the banks have put up valid consideration when the money they created never existed?

Thanks
 
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