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Wall progress thread


valamhic

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Paddyc

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Trump had both houses for the first two years of his presidency and did nothing about the wall. He then got kicked around in the mid-terms and invented the wall as an issue.

If Republicans really, really wanted to clamp down in illegal immigration they would make it a strict liability offence to knowingly hire an illegal immigrant.

James Woods can bite me.
 

Telstar 62

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Trump had both houses for the first two years of his presidency and did nothing about the wall. He then got kicked around in the mid-terms and invented the wall as an issue.

If Republicans really, really wanted to clamp down in illegal immigration they would make it a strict liability offence to knowingly hire an illegal immigrant.

James Woods can bite me.

Whatever turns you on.... :sick:
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Thats before Trump was elected. I would point out that the trend starts rising against in 2016 at the tail end of the graph, and it rose a bit in 2018 compared to 2017. Its around 430,000 as of end of last year.

I would also point out that with California' governors announcement that he's going to extend medical benefits to illegals/undocumented migrants, the cost per migrant is probably going to be higher in future than in the past.
Hillmanhunter1's point exactly...."llegal border entries have dropped 90% since 2000 - without a wall!" By his graph you can tell it was down to the margins when Trump took office. Now, it's about the cost/benefit of accommodating his wall demagogy compared to more efficient ways to improve border security.

As for Medi-Cal in CA, you're aware or should be that uninsured people regardless of citizenry or legal status generally cost more because they either go to the emergency rooms for all care big and small or don't avail themselves of preventative care and eventually wind up in the emergency rooms anyway with festered health issues. Unvaccinated and untreated people with contagion also pose a public safety hazard.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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How can they count them, have they a meter, presumably if they count them they would have to catch them
No, you can count Visa overstays without catching them.
 

Hillmanhunter1

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Trump had both houses for the first two years of his presidency and did nothing about the wall. He then got kicked around in the mid-terms and invented the wall as an issue.

If Republicans really, really wanted to clamp down in illegal immigration they would make it a strict liability offence to knowingly hire an illegal immigrant.

James Woods can bite me.
Absolutely. Illegal immigration exists because illegal immigrants can and do obtain employment. If you want to put an end to illegal immigration just throw a couple of restaurateurs or landscape gardeners or golf course owners in jail.

If all you want to do is build a wall then you're not really interested in doing anything, you're interested in being seen to do something, while continuing to employ illegal immigrants:
Trump’s golf course employed undocumented workers — and then fired them amid showdown over border wall - The Washington Post
 

Dame_Enda

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Hillmanhunter1's point exactly...."llegal border entries have dropped 90% since 2000 - without a wall!" By his graph you can tell it was down to the margins when Trump took office. Now, it's about the cost/benefit of accommodating his wall demagogy compared to more efficient ways to improve border security.

As for Medi-Cal in CA, you're aware or should be that uninsured people regardless of citizenry or legal status generally cost more because they either go to the emergency rooms for all care big and small or don't avail themselves of preventative care and eventually wind up in the emergency rooms anyway with festered health issues. Unvaccinated and untreated people with contagion also pose a public safety hazard.
I would argue that with DACA and family reunification and the striking down of the 1990s California constitutional amendment banning state benefits for illegal immigrants, the entitlements connected with illegal migration are exponentially more than the were when it was higher. One thing I'm sick of is hearing it compared with Irish immigration before the New Deal when people literally had to live in Third World conditions. The growth of Sanctuary Cities means there is more incentive for criminal illegal immigrants to go to the US to avoid detection.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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I would argue that with DACA and family reunification and the striking down of the 1990s California constitutional amendment banning state benefits for illegal immigrants, the entitlements connected with illegal migration are exponentially more than the were when it was higher.
As attractive as the image of the grifting sponger is, it's simply not the case (anomalies aside) in the US. The US isn't for spongers mate, especially for the undocumented. The undocumented are almost completely barred by law from collecting dole as well as the legal immigrant, and even for citizens, it's not a great payday. 'Murica don't roll like that. ;)

I've advised this before, but it's a big mistake to conflate social benefits abuse in the US with that you'll see in Ireland as well as immigration law gamesmanship thanks to absurd extensions of the ECHR interpretations by the courts. The Democrats in the US are to the right of the Tories. What's far more typical to witness here are undocumented Hispanic workers out at 6am working the local properties and doing other sh!t work white people won't do anymore, including the Irish from home and their descendants in the States. Look no further than your fan boy Trump that's once again in the news for being a flagrant hirer of undocumented immigrants for grunt work on his properties and I've covered that with you many times:

Dozens of undocumented immigrants employed by Donald Trump’s ‘Trump National Golf Club’ in Westchester County, NY were fired earlier this month, as Trump waged a war in Washington to keep others like them from entering the country using a border wall.

The immigrants in question were longtime employees of the golf course. Many of them had earned employee-of-the-month awards and had received glowing letters of recommendation for other employment. A few even had the keys to Eric Trump’s weekend home, The Washington Post reports.

During the firings, employees were told that the company had just audited their immigration documents, which they had submitted years prior, and determined them to be fake. Some of the fired workers had been employed by the property for more than 15 years.
Trump National Golf Club Fires Dozens of Undocumented Immigrants - Fortune

That's why so many exist in the US...they're an intentional subclass of labour and Trump and his kind wish to keep them that way so pay no heed to his cynical and unethical theatrics with his Robber Baron supporters that enjoy such labour or conflating them with the EU's immigration issues.

One thing I'm sick of is hearing it compared with Irish immigration before the New Deal when people literally had to live in Third World conditions.
Guess you've never heard of Mary Mallon a/k/a 'Typhoid Mary', the cook from Cookstown?
Mary Mallon
Such types can exist now with other newer and evolved older diseases...pick your poison.

The modern world is still plagued with contagion, pun partially intended, and if listening to Trump's caravan hype, they're all sick and diseased even with smallpox even though it's extinct in the wild. As a gay man, do you feel it's wise to have unaware and/or untreated people with AIDS on the street due to lack of health care? What person straight or gay would want that?

Even for ailments of a personal non-contagious nature, what's the purpose of letting them develop five alarm fires that require emergency room care, or having people simply use the emergency room for all health matters big or small? That's bad for both personal health and cost.

Doing the humane thing and the self-interested thing often co-exist, and it's a twofer to do what's proposed. It doesn't give anyone legal status. or protection from deportation.

Dame Enda said:
The growth of Sanctuary Cities means there is more incentive for criminal illegal immigrants to go to the US to avoid detection.
That statement completely misapprehends the situation. Like spongers, people with criminal records and intents don't choose the US to seek sanctuary anywhere given American attitudes and laws regarding the topic. FFS, CA still has the death penalty and harsh sentencing laws like 'three strikes', etc.

There's almost no legal relief available against inadmissibility and deportation for serious and/or recidivist criminals for starters, and for those looking to cause trouble, law enforcement resources and criminal laws and penalties are far more serious than what you'll find in Ireland with unarmed Guards and revolving door recidivist policies and where serious crime isn't taken seriously. Once again, do not conflate the US situation with the Irish one.
 
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Dame_Enda

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....CA still has the death penalty and harsh sentencing laws like 'three strikes', etc. ...
In practice CA has no executions because of an appeals process that goes on for decades.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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In practice CA has no executions because of an appeals process that goes on for decades.
CA's last execution was in 2006. In CA and many states (including PA where I currently reside), the death penalty threat is routinely used to induce people accused of murder with malice aforethought to plead guilty to a sentence of life imprisonment without possibility of parole or probation ('life behind bars'). In other states with high immigration rates like Texas for example, they've no issue with executing anyone convicted of premeditated murder.
Texas again leads U.S. in executions in 2018, and Dallas was top county, with 4 - Dallas Morning News

To Ted Cruz's (he argued the case and has demagogued on the issue) and Texas' discredit specifically and the US generally, the US has wilfully and flagrantly been violating international treaty obligations in many cases regarding consular notification in death penalty cases, which is stupid because US citizens abroad benefit far more from the treaty given relative risks of exposure to unjust treatment.
Medellín v. Texas

Let's not kid ourselves here....the 'life sentence' for premeditated murderers in Ireland is a feckin' joke and insult to crime victims and their kin and a public safety threat in leniency, and the revolving door regarding serious and/or recidivist criminals is inexcusable and likewise a public safety threat. The US goes too far in the other direction insofar as prosecution and punishment of nonviolent minor offences and others where choosing rehabilitation first is more just under the circumstances.
 

valamhic

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CA's last execution was in 2006. In CA and many states (including PA where I currently reside), the death penalty threat is routinely used to induce people accused of murder with malice aforethought to plead guilty to a sentence of life imprisonment without possibility of parole or probation ('life behind bars'). In other states with high immigration rates like Texas for example, they've no issue with executing anyone convicted of premeditated murder.
Texas again leads U.S. in executions in 2018, and Dallas was top county, with 4 - Dallas Morning News

To Ted Cruz's (he argued the case and has demagogued on the issue) and Texas' discredit specifically and the US generally, the US has wilfully and flagrantly been violating international treaty obligations in many cases regarding consular notification in death penalty cases, which is stupid because US citizens abroad benefit far more from the treaty given relative risks of exposure to unjust treatment.
Medellín v. Texas

Let's not kid ourselves here....the 'life sentence' for premeditated murderers in Ireland is a feckin' joke and insult to crime victims and their kin and a public safety threat in leniency, and the revolving door regarding serious and/or recidivist criminals is inexcusable and likewise a public safety threat. The US goes too far in the other direction insofar as prosecution and punishment of nonviolent minor offences and others where choosing rehabilitation first is more just under the circumstances.
Cant believe a communist describes Irish judicial sentences as a joke and wants to protect US citizens by harsher sentences for murderers. Surely a migrant was better ( and American society better) if he never got in than get in and spend the rest of his life in Jail.
 

valamhic

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Trump had both houses for the first two years of his presidency and did nothing about the wall. He then got kicked around in the mid-terms and invented the wall as an issue.

If Republicans really, really wanted to clamp down in illegal immigration they would make it a strict liability offence to knowingly hire an illegal immigrant.

James Woods can bite me.
He put the wall on top of his agenda from July 2016, I watched his rallies.

Why is there no kick up about this border barrier? Denmark builds anti-pig border fence amid swine fever fears - BBC News
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Cant believe a communist describes Irish judicial sentences as a joke and wants to protect US citizens by harsher sentences for murderers. Surely a migrant was better ( and American society better) if he never got in than get in and spend the rest of his life in Jail.
LOL, entrepreneurs move to the US, ya padded pasture pinko. ;)
Subsidies now account for half of farm incomes - Independent.ie
You must feel cheated after missing out with the lads across the border from your taxpayer funded Cavan cash cow with the 'cash for ash' scandal but the dirty diesel might have made it up for ya.

Immigrants in the US, documented or otherwise, commit less crime than the natives do.

Yeah, I do wish to keep murderers off the streets, and the Irish 'criminal justice system' is a revolving door on murder and other serious and recidivist crime ya hug-a-thug git but then again maybe it might be in your self-interest to keep it so.
 

Dame_Enda

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Crisis at our southern border is real and growing worse without the wall | TheHill

One of the ways illegals are gaming the system is by coming as family units. That allows them likely to avoid prosecution for illegal immigration (which is a federal crime under US law) because under the Flores Decree, you cannot prosecute them and simultaneously hold the children in detention with the parents. This is why the families got split up last year.
 

valamhic

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I understood, that if President Trump used a State of emergency (SOE) to build the wall, it could set a precedent so that the Dems on a future date could use a SOE to try to change the climate. I don't think this is the case. It seems he has the power to do it.

I can tell you for sure that in Ireland's planning system, an SEA, Environmental Impact Statement and a habitats assessment for big projects is required. The requirement is especially more strict for transboundary projects which the wall would be.
The requirement does not apply to national defense projects. So Ireland can build something for defense with ordinary simple planning permission and no EU assessments at all.

I presume these same laws apply on principle in the US, so he has the option. It is unlikely the Dems would get away with calling climate a national defense issue. Check this out.


Politico: Path Clears for Trump Declaring National Emergency
 
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